and sadly, blizzard seems to have no intention of changing this matchup. also it doesn't really help that the ne fanboys are well and alive, still claiming ne-orc not imba... gimme a break even moon said orc is EASY

Maybe people should try and come up with some ideas on this instead of just flaming the entire thing or making inreasonable proposals. I haven't been playing wc3 long at all, but I do understand the issue.

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maybe try somthing else than subborn raiders oO

Human has changed from being called the weakest race to be even being called imba these days and it started with them ditching the Rifle/Caster they used in every matchup and using different strategies like going to Tier 3 which was thought to be meaningless at the time.

Maybe a genious Orc player needs to come up with something like that to change the state of the game right now as Grunt/Raider can only go so far these days..

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aki and moon lost to grubby in weg because he tried mass talons every game!

word Asuka :P Grubby was trying with hhs first to tauren, but I guess the build needs some work. In the end he had way too many hhs when he played vs Moon (I think it was) using that strategy.

If anyone saw the Elake vs Diesel replay on tr, I was struck by how much tier 3 would have dominated Diesel. That hawk that killed like, 2 pults, 3 kodos and a hero could have been turned into a useless skill if the bm had been equiped with an orb of lightning. Likewise, some bats with liquid fire could have harassed Diesels main, stoping his creeping and forcing him to make more dryads that are easily destroyed by pults. Something like 3 bats would have been enough for that.

As you said, rifle/caster is strong, but when players of equal skill meet it almost always fails now. Human has transformed with the help of ToD, Spell, Inso and XyLigan into what is probably the strongest race around. It's time for orc to make a run for that title :)

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Dont forget, early ROC days, mass talons was heavily abused by players such as Tillerman/MaDFroG and stuff and to this date remains a really gay strat ><

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#6
aren't you forgetting Sky in there?
Insomnia and Sky are the first to ditch the rifle/caster style as far as I know... ToD hasn't made a trademark strat of his own yet^.-
He plays damn well though~

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As usual, it's almost impossible to know who used what strat first. What becomes important is who makes certain strats popular. ToD popularized the mass tanks vs undead for example. Even if it isn't used much anymore it's basically because it's lame, not because it's easy to stop.

Sky has been leading the evolution of human for a long time, but around the time when human started to transform from "weak" to "imba" I didn't see his name appear too often. But that probably has more to do with what forum you hang on more than anything else :)

I really should have mentioned Bjarke too :) He's the one who popularized the human staff basically, using knights against elf. Phew, there are just too many inventive humans out there! It's funny, because the least inventive have been undead and orc. You are your race perhaps? Orc brain and undead brain etc...

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