"Defense of the Ancients is killing WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne!" is the shout, which you can hear everywhere in the WarCraft 3: TFT scene. Just some weeks, or even days have passed by since the Clanbase announced the "kick-off" of WarCraft 3 as itself and the waving "DotA-wards" at the EuroCup XVI. Is it the upbeat prelude for the "nemesis" of WarCraft 3 as a competitive game, as it was just since almost 8 year? Is this era destined to end up in a tragically downfall? Will this tiny modification a.k.a. Defense of the Ancients be the "Airplane" who breaks down the so highly tightened "Twin Towers" alias "WarCraft 3" as the old successfully old-established RTS, which it was back 2 years ago? In my most intensive opinion, with ruffianly honesty, and in the fulfilling in my role of a "bearish" - the possibility of human failure not to be sneezed at this point of the monolog - shortened freak-being, I think it's kinda impossible to stop this avalanche of "doom", which is a run-of-the-mill scenario - going to get out of control, slowly, but steady. With the release of StarCraft 2 - at any time next year - WarCraft 3: TFT will die, most surely - and DotA will stay alive, swimming upon the surface by waving the flag of surviving as an old-based newcomer as a professional game. Your estimation?, your minds? Go ahead!

 

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(last year)  #1 Flex-

Dota was the gay man at an all hetero party, no doubght here... but SC2 should poot an end to dota, becouse it just dosent desorve to be at the PG sceene... Sup?

(last year)  #2 myMYM|Dendra

dota is not a game, hence it doesnt deserve to be even connected to PG scene. as for sc2? wc3 is based on graphics, user friendly interface and fun (no matter how nooby you are you can't f** up builds so anyone can have decent macro which makes the game easier for noobs), sc2 is based on everything wc3 has, modern rts junk has and is a wannabe sc1, game will most definetly bring an end to wc3 reign in 3D rts as sc2 will be more fun and prettier whereas to take down the crown from sc1 they'll need years of patching and perhaps then it will be similiar (as in near perfection and not fond of noobs since you can make tons of mistakes in every little aspect) P.S. one thing will be hard though, i think almost impossible for wc3 players - getting used to SC feeling, aka "action all over the map instead of idling on one army 24/7" and different army control, seems sc2 will be harder due to high mobility of many units, only thing that seems fond of wc3 are the big units that look more like some Boss rather than "just another unit in your army" Last edited by Dendra at 01.10.2007, 14:29 If force won't work, use greater force.

(last year)  #3 RonniMBL

I don't like dota very much, and never played much starcraft. I will stick to warcraft 3, no matter if im the last wc3 gamer, im addicted to WC3, like some are to SC

(last year)  #4 toCuws

Why not let people who enjoy dota play it? What about dota scares and annoys people so much? Don't cry just because the tft player base is decreasing, perhaps with the exception of china, and people move on to other games. @Dendra, I'm really sorry to say this, but please get a life. Your crusade against everything not sc is annoying at best, and flat-out freaking retarded at worst. Your reply had absolutely nothing to do with the topic, expect maybe your first stupid argument against dota. Here's a typical Dendra reply to anything be it news, blog-post, interview, picture comment or even his speech at his Mother's 50th birthday: "That's all very good/interesting/stupid/whatever ... BUT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT HOW MUCH SC2 AND WC3 SUCKS?!?!?!?!?!11 I MEAN ITS LIEK SUPER EASY N STUFF. ALSO IM LIKE SUPER GOSU BECAUSE I PLAY THIS GAME WHERE I HAVE TO CLICK BUILDINGS INDIVIDUALLY MANY TIMES WHILE ALSO LEFT CLICKING WORKERS AND RIGHT CLICKING BLUE PIXELS A MILLION TIMES EACH GAME. ALSO I NEVER USE FULLSTOPS IN MY WRITING BECAUSE IM TOO BUSY PRODUCING MARINES OFF 15 BARRACKS" If you so desperately need self-ratification by explaining how Gosu and old-school you are and how everyone else are just noobs, at least try doing it in some other context - be original ffs. "dota is not a game, hence it doesnt deserve to be even connected to PG scene." This argument doesn't make in sense. Finally, I'm sorry caZ- but your post was extremely difficult to read. Don't try and over-complicate your english writing, because as it is now it comes off as rather broken. Last edited by toCuws at 02.10.2007, 00:27

(last year)  #5 toCuws

I'm sorry, double post. Last edited by toCuws at 02.10.2007, 00:23

(last year)  #6 myMYM|Dendra

errm dota doesnt belong here...it's a map hello? problem is dota might live on while wc3 will die...and like i said wc3 is fast car-type game, once a faster car gets on market old one is replaced - its no crusade or any crap, it's hardcore fact which you have to face. anyway sc2 will reign so just wait and see. aint my fault if it is damn obvius what type of game wc3 is since even its gamers confirmed what are its best sides, sc2 fits in perfectly, only thing wc3 boys will miss is lots of one army+hero controlling. dota on the other hand is for gamers that are 2lazy to control 2groups of units so they control just one, they'll never adapt to sc2 as it will be INSANE mutlitasking game. btw as for being gosu - never mentioned that ;) i've seen 2many wc3 gamers in sc and sc gamers in wc3, it got pretty clear which gamers do better on ladder. Like someone said in wc3 you cant miss build orders and cant have bad macro (you have 15workers so dont talk about macro), if i wanted a crusade i'd list such things on and on, point is it is pointless as the list is endless and i've told parts of it several times even though you cant get it until you try it for yourself, sc2 will be perfect test for wc3 and sc gamers, wc3 guys will learn what does multitasking all over the map and macro mean while sc boys will...learn to adapt to 3D i guess and it seems some of the units resemble heroes more than the usual sc units. as i said many times if you wish to challenge my opinion that sc>everything that moves and is called rts msg on msn or whatever and give me a counter-argument :) until then i'm pretty sure sc is no1 just like q3 is best fps out there and cs 1.6 is 10x better than crappy cs source :) Last edited by Dendra at 02.10.2007, 01:16 If force won't work, use greater force.

(last year)  #7 inactiveYasirJaborie

imo WIC #1, sc1 #2, wc3 #3 ;> dota aka map is not a rts so I dont care but its always fun with more esports games which draw more people to esports, then probably when sc2 is released it will be #2 >;

(last year)  #8 Flex-

Well i played both SC1 and WC3 ( WC2 also ) , and the main reason i enjoyed wc3 is the whoule hero factor, which i will deffinetly miss when i move to SC2. The reason why i lost so much respect for teas like mYm and SK was becouse they picked up dota teams while aknwolaging thats its only a custom map.... Sup?

(last year)  #9 myMYM|Dendra

#8 e-sports are literally all about money, problem is athletics and such sports have their values ruined as well, especially football, so it's only natural if real sports are becoming more about money and profit than anything else that the esports are mainly focused on earning money. Even though dota is a map on lan tourneys prize pool for it is much bigger than for sc. lately we've seen wow joining mym, you cant go wrong there, you'll get bunch of newcomers aka addicted kids that collect epic complet to show it off at a town so others can drool over it, that is guaranteed :) now we see poker - so basically last added teams are all about money. sure it's cool but it just shows people dont take this as (e-)sports at all but as business, otherwise we wouldn't see games such as wow here, if sims were popular i'd bet they would be added as well. on a side note, i'd rather see pokemon crystal here than dota or wow :D -respect to gamers that play wow simply to do some nice arena games, the rest 99.99% of the world that spends days and nights killing monsters and passing instances - there are better ways to waste time :D Last edited by Dendra at 02.10.2007, 15:41 If force won't work, use greater force.

(last year)  #10 toCuws

Once again @Dendra, "errm dota doesnt belong here...it's a map hello?" This isn't an argument, just a stupid remark. I repeat: Op never talked about sc and only mentioned sc2 once. Stop graping every non-existing opportunity to let out your stupid crap about why sc is so awesome. NO ONE CARES. Even after I addressed the "issues" in your first comment, you went directly onto resuming your stupid bullshit campaign! Can't you read? Stop hijacking everything and making it about your biased views on different games. "its no crusade or any crap, it's hardcore fact which you have to face." Why do I/we have to face anything? The point I'm trying to make, you see, is this: WE DON'T CARE! "i said many times if you wish to challenge my opinion that sc>everything that moves and is called rts msg on msn or whatever and give me a counter-argument" Here's a list of reason why I don't want to counter you stupid "arguments": 1) I don't give a crap about what you think is the best game! 2) I don't give a crap about what you think is the best game! 3) I don't give a crap about what you think is the best game! 4) You arguments are extremely difficult to decipher, seeing as your posts consist mostly of just scattered thoughts written in bad english. 5) It's stupid to argue about opinions and taste. 6) There's no universal truth about what makes a good game. 7) I myself tend to think that sc is on of the best games ever as well. It really is remarkable how a staff member is allowed to consistently let out irrelevant crap and pollute this site. (My prediction is that Dendra will post a reply, not realising that it is in fact not a real reply: He will not talk about anything mentioned in my post, but rather continue a long-dead sc vs wc3 debate) Last edited by toCuws at 02.10.2007, 22:05

(last year)  #11 myMYM|Dendra

errm, i wont waste time on that side topic, i could give you a nice reply about my english but i have no interest in changing your attitude in that area. reason why i come down to the topic of wc3 and sc is because both are kings in their own dimensions and before being able to estimate which game will die and why (when sc2 comes) you have to understand what are the good sides of both games. if your arguments are based on "i dont care" and "wc3 is more fun" class then you pretty much aint capable of expressing your thoughts on this matter and explaining them as you dont understand the games, what type of people they attract and why will those people switch to sc2. blizzard is trying to make some sort of a hybrid here or whatever, only problem is that sc2 wont be like sc and it wont be like wc3, it will be a new game based on good sides of both games. reason why it wont hurt dota community is exactly the same as the reason why it wont hurt cs source community, the two are not related. if you decided to wake up you could easily figure out that sc is threatened because sc2 will have better prize pools at lan tourneys and for many more reasons just as wc3 is threatened for its own weaknesses. what are you even looking for here if you dont care? cant you see that survival of our beloved games is closely related to the differences between them? my crusade against wc3 ended when i realised wc3 guys dont measure quality of a game in same way sc guys do, so my posts here are related to the reasons why wc3 will most likely die when sc2 comes. i have just given you a reason why sc will be threatened as well. Now you can either continue spamming "i dont care" or you can analyse the games, find their weaknesses, share your findings with us and in the end we will see if our predictions were true. i dont find pleasure in chewing grass and letting others do the thinking, if you are such type then my apologies for trying to create a reaction in you that would result in you saying "x game will die because of x reason". Last edited by Dendra at 02.10.2007, 23:44 If force won't work, use greater force.

(last year)  #12 Flex-

I'll post a reply, and I'll keep it simple as i can... "errm dota doesnt belong here...it's a map hello?" This isn't an argument, just a stupid remark. *Me - I agree with that remark, so he didnt feel like explaining it, use your head... I repeat: Op never talked about sc and only mentioned sc2 once. Stop graping every non-existing opportunity to let out your stupid crap about why sc is so awesome. NO ONE CARES. ** Me - I'd like to see thouse dota fag boys play SC, the other way arround would look stupid though, they would need a mounth top to become good at it. Even after I addressed the "issues" in your first comment, you went directly onto resuming your stupid bullshit campaign! Can't you read? Stop hijacking everything and making it about your biased views on different games. *** Me - The reason why we have a PG sceene and everything around it is becouse games turned more chalanging, more inovative and etc... and it brought a hel of a competitiot with it, no point in going backwards, its retardet! And the fact that we are arguing about it now jsut proves that some people still rembmer where it all came from... "i said many times if you wish to challenge my opinion that sc>everything that moves and is called rts msg on msn or whatever and give me a counter-argument" Here's a list of reason why I don't want to counter you stupid "arguments": 1) I don't give a crap about what you think is the best game! 2) I don't give a crap about what you think is the best game! 3) I don't give a crap about what you think is the best game! 4) You arguments are extremely difficult to decipher, seeing as your posts consist mostly of just scattered thoughts written in bad english. 5) It's stupid to argue about opinions and taste. 6) There's no universal truth about what makes a good game. 7) I myself tend to think that sc is on of the best games ever as well. **** Me - im not gonna respond to this fully, but reread what you wrote here and think about it O_o crap and pollute this site. (My prediction is that Dendra will post a reply, not realising that it is in fact not a real reply: He will not talk about anything mentioned in my post, but rather continue a long-dead sc vs wc3 debate) ***** Me - There is no polution on this site, besides the dota news threads and the dota team it self. As for denstras reply, im kinda curios my self ^^ P.S This was not a diss Sup?

(last year)  #13 toCuws

The thing that both of you don't get is this: I am not, nor will I ever be, arguing about your opinion on anything. I'm simply trying to tell you to stfu about stuff that is completely irrelevant to this blog-post. His post is solely about how dota has taken over from wc3, and that when sc2 comes along and kills wc3, then dota will probably still survive. Dendra, your posts do not talk about this matter, but completely different things instead. The fact that you cannot see this is simply sad. The skill you are lacking is reading comprehension. Even when you, flex, take out specific quotes and try to reply directly to them, you end up talking about completely different things that are in no shape a form direct responses to the quote. I understand why your English might not be that good, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. My English certainly isn't perfect either. It's what we get for not having it as our first language. The difference is though, I don't keep replying to someone when I clearly do not have a clue about what he/she is trying to say. Well let's try and stop derailing this thread any further. Afterall a debate about your reading comprehension skills is just as irrelevant to the thread as your annoying sc vs everything debate. Last edited by toCuws at 03.10.2007, 19:49

(last year)  #14 Flex-

You just trhow my bad english in my face, say i dont make anysence, and dont even feel like replying... fine! The whoule dota argument is here only bcuz some ppl feel that its not how its supposed to be, the fact that dota has become so pular and etc.. As for SC2, we always knew it would end up killing the PG sceene in both WC3 and SC, though WC3 might live for a while, while SC is getting patched properly or atleast an expancion comes out. And my point was simple, you cant go backwards on PG and make things more easy... you have to make them more difficult and inovative so it would aventually be a classick game, unlike dota which is 3 clicks 2 shouts and a lot of laughter. Sup?

(last year)  #15 RESTINPEE

I'm sorry Dendra but you should try getting some background before bashing dota. DotA is not a map but a mod. It is a completely different thing compared to normal wc3. It's just using the same engine. Like Counter-Strike and Half-Life. So stop hating DotA just because it doesn't have protoss >.<

(last year)  #16 Flex-

Its not about protos, its about the any units, there arent any.... Sup?

(11 months ago)  #17 Dan-san

I see dota as a game you play when you're too tired to ladder, or with your classmates who are too newbish to play ladder, not as a prestigious game like wc3. Anyways I think wc3 will lose a great deal of players to sc2, probably me aswell, however I think a lot of the pros will stick around, and so will people with pc's that can't run sc2. Maybe sc2 won't be that great and many will return, it does lack the hero factor and all the melee units wc3 has, which i think is a pity, so players will return to wc3. But probably not. However, dota will still be around, because many people see it like i do, and people will still need that. I really do love wc3, but all the people i knew from the starting days have already quit, so switching to sc2 won't be painful. Play your best or get pwned like the rest.

(9 months ago)  #18 MaZuI

DotA ... with or without support of MAJOR organisation , will grow as a community . it is inevitable tt it will grow to be a tremendous and valuable market to companies . Who knows? Game of such similarity will be made , a complete genre might be created! SC2 will take most WC3 gamers .. probably not all . However , WC3 strategy are a tad different to SC as there is lesser higher ground - lower ground terrain or cliffs seperating 2 ' continents ' more flying units chances too.