Esport Poker League02.05.2008, 02:20 • written by Fatih 'BattaLGazi' Erol • 1744 views
About spastical things IceFrog doing
For original topic go here:http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=217625Copy from my own thread:
``Hi guys,in this article i`ll talk about emmmm DotA,with all means =)You`ll see.
A new map has come **attention:This is not a Omg_my_favorite_hero_got_nerfed_icefrog_is_noob_tr thread,please quit reading if you except so** with many changes,in this thread i`ll interrogate the reasons behind this changes;and try to find answers on this questions:Are they enough?Are they improve gameplay?Are they really necessary?Now enough talking let`s do some action =)
As you know DotA is a WC3 map created many years ago,it has many map creators in past and now it is still developing;the current map creator is **a random retard named** IceFrog(Ok that was a joke,but you know every joke has its reality side =)To be honest i can`t say that i love his actions).Actually DotA has growth really big.ESWC,MYM tourneys,many leagues,big LAN events and so on.But the problem for me is that,we don`t have a stable map.Tourneys use different maps some 48b,some 49c,last version for public games.And this divides community to something like:Stable version pla
* Lowered side angles on Bristleback(From V52`s changelog)
Another nerf on BB.Do you remember HOW many times he changed?Is this last change was really needed?Why IceFrog can`t make a stable BB?Answer is very simple:Becouse he is making this changes not for you,not for himself just for Competitive DotA.BB is a tank hero and he is oftenly used in matches.He has good tanking ability due to his passive skill Bristleback which reduces incoming damage.But that does not means he is unstopable.In a recent MYM Pride 10(currently biggest online DotA tourney) match team KS countered team MYM`s BB with Obsi+Zeus combo.Obsidian`s Astral Orb together with Zeus`s Static Field easily countered BB.Go download and watch the replay if you want.BB`s passive skill is good for tanking but still he has low Str gain per level(only 2.2 not so good for Str heroes) and if you able to overcome his tanking abilities like KS did in that game you can bring down the_so_called_imba_tank_pig!So what`s the point in nerfing him?Answer is same again:Competitive DotA,he was recently used and so for that he got nerfed!
* Increased AutoQuills release requirement on Bristleback from 200 to 300
Same things you got that.
Let`s look at Akasha:
* Scream of Pain manacost is now constant on all levels
Insert & lt;
Omg_i_see_Akasha_too_much_in_matches_so_i_need_to_nerf_her_a
gain_even_though_
she_got_her_bl
* Reduced Reverse Polarity AOE a little
Insert <i_see_Magnus_people_bl
* Lowered Sand King's ba
Check above man you can make your own codes as well =)Ok one last code for you:Insert & lt;
i_see_Sk_running_stunning_killing_owning_a_lot_i_need_to_ner
f_him_even_though
_i_have_nerfed_his_ulti_in_past>here.
* Lowered Sven's agility gain+* Lowered Black King Bar duration slightly=We can say insert<Sven_with_Bkb_is_good_so_a_nerf_on_Sven_will_be_good_
wait_a_minute_why_i_don`t_nerf_Bkb_too?>here.Will be happy if he doesn`t nerfs Mom too...
* Lowered movement speed on Beastmaster's Hawk
For solo-mid BM`s.
* Increased Primal Roar cooldown by 10 seconds
For less gangs.
* Lowered Puck's attack range from 600 to 550
Rising star of 49c matches,don`t worry she will get more nerfs in future.
* Lowered Faceless Void's strength gain
Ulti nerf,stat nerf ok what`s the next?
That was nerfs you can check changelogs and compare them with recent Competitive DotA scene you will understand what i mean.Now let`s check buffs:
* Reduced Dragon Knight's Breathe Fire manacost
Dk is unused in matches and this means he needs a buff...
* Increased Immolation damage on level 3 Primal Split's Fire panda+* Increased cast range on Drunken Haze=He misses his little Panda maybe?
* Lowered Medusa's attack animation time+* Increased level 2 and 3 Purge's damage to summoned unit=Medusa is used rarely in matches too so she reserves a buff...
Ok ok,i won`t continue i got bored.I`m not saying reducing DK`s Fire manacost is a bad idea,but nerfing popular heroes while buffing unpopular ones is a bad idea.With that way you can`t find a balance even in version 9.99.Becouse all you doing is weaken powerfull ones,while strengthen the weak ones.Just use your mind make all of them powerfull in one way while weak in an other;like you succesfully did in Mortred.
Remember old Mortred had a low starting Hp,low Str gain per level,no last hit skill while she can be dangerous in late game due to her high agi gain,critic and evasion.But this was never happening becouse she was getting pawned in early game all time.But with that new dagger skill,she can last hit pretty good and this giving her a chance in late game.Still she is weak in Hp,still she dies quickly,but now as a late game hero she can do her job when farmed.What we need now is changes like that!Stable,balanced and effective changes.I(and i`m pretty sure that other forumers) have many ideas for game but it seems you have forgetten us,it`s the community of its pla
Thanks for reading my article,drop a comment i`ll be happy =)``
Replies (27)
   #1 02.05.2008, 03:10  Posts : 3 Member since : 31 Jan 06 | I agree 100% with this post. Icefrog is just nerfing heros and items that is use in competitive dota alot. The thing I am worry about is most European tournaments use .48b so I hope that he is not nerfing heros and items ba |
Editor  #2 02.05.2008, 03:16  Posts : 70 Member since : 07 May 07 | I actually Understand what you are saying here but to be honest. I do not think Icefrog is trying to make the map 100% suitable for competitive play. He lets them adds advertisement about competitive dota in the loading screen pic but I think he is just trying to keep the map fun and enjoyable to play. The thing also is that balancing the maps is tricky. With nerf comes buffs. IF you nerf one hero another hero gets buffed. You buff a hero another hero gets downgraded and becomes useless. I can't say he isn't doing a good job because so far I am happy with the map and I think that some things do require nerfs. Like Bristleback for example I am actually quite glad he got nerf, now he doesn't have to be banned all the times but still isn't useless and killing him at times can now be more possible then it was before. But opinion respected, hope mine gets as well. Last edited by at 02.05.2008, 03:18 ______________________ Participate in Dota Charity event. myspace.com/dotaforkids |
#4 02.05.2008, 11:08 Posts : 1 Member since : 20 Sep 07 | I read the whole post and started to think back. The conclusion is " ICEFROG NEEDS A NERF " |
DotA Stage Admin #5 02.05.2008, 13:27  Posts : 564 Member since : 20 May 07 | It is a really good idea to nerf overused heroes. Why? Here is the answer. Now we have about 90 DotA Heroes which can be devided in different sections. OverUsed OU like QoP, Mirana, SP, BB, Centaur etc. Heroes that are used nearly every game if there wouldnt be these bans in -xl mode Then there are NormalUsed NU like Sven, SandKing, SkeletonKing, Puck, Pugna. Usually normal heroes with good abilitis. They are sometimes picked, sometimes not. And at the end we have UnderUsed UU like Troll, Lycan, DR, Axe, nerubian weaver, gorgon, Spiritbreaker. I think that Ice Frog wants that all heroes should be used in competitive play. Thats why he for example increased the 3 bans to 4. More OU heroes will be banned and people will choose more NU or UU heroes coz there will be no OU to choose. Its really hard to decide how to lower or strengthen a hero to not to make him OU or UU. He (icefrog) actually tries to make all heroes to NO heroes and you should appreciate that. It cant be that you choose 2 heroes to counter 1 hero (see BB example) I agree to #2 :D ______________________ ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ |
#6 02.05.2008, 14:03  Posts : 7 Member since : 06 Dec 06 | I can make every hero balanced and normally used while IceFrog doing reverse.For example remember Magnus:He was buffed on his ulti,on his cast animation,on his Shockwave`s cooldown but now since he is overused so nerfing starts again.He is just doing same things again and again.Btw there are some really good things i liked:New item codes,pooling code,creep wave starting delay,hero removal improvement(still needs to be 5 instead of 4,like picks),various visual effects and so on.Why i`ve liked them?Becouse they are real changes,not made for just changing like giving Lucifer`s Doom a huge buff in past and waiting to see if he will be used,after seeing he isn`t in matches a lot,buffing his ulti again.I`m pretty sure he will get a ms/as/regen bonus on his Scorched Earth skill or another spastical stat/animation cast times/other thing i do not know yet in future. Thanks for reading and commenting. |
#7 02.05.2008, 18:48 Posts : 3 Member since : 13 Jan 07 | In future all heroes will have 1-1 ba |
#8 02.05.2008, 19:28  Posts : 252 Member since : 07 Mar 07 | i havent even downloaded the new map yet and i dont intend to, just playing wars for the rest of my dota time :) |
#9 04.05.2008, 00:01 Posts : 1 Member since : 22 Oct 07 | Eh, that KS-MYM game is a pretty bad example and rather than proving your point, it opposes it. MYM picked SP-BB very early in the pick order, giving 4 picks to counter. What did KS do? Used all of those picks to properly counter, it wasn't just Zeus and Obsidian, if MYM had picked up Zeus or Lina, the OD could have been ff-ed before every fight and taken down without too much difficulty (a bl IceFrog has a lot of issues to balance (for lack of a better word) right now. Namely, if DotA is ever to succeed (its not quite there yet) as a global e-sport, it has to be spectator friendly, if the same few heroes are being used (think back to how fresh -XL was after years of -LM), the games will not be refreshing at all. |
#10 04.05.2008, 01:00 Posts : 7 Member since : 06 Dec 06 | I was trying to prove that Rigwarl -like every other heroes- can be easily countered,like KS did in that game.I won`t argue about picks and bans before the game,i just know that their tactic was good and countered Rigwarl,you can check about this li For lots of balancing issues IceFrog having,i can easily say this:He is developer since 6.00.There has been 52 versions(not including ``b`` versions),i can say that game itself has improved a lot while in-game balance is not. Thanks for the comments though. |
#11 04.05.2008, 15:00 Posts : 1 Member since : 26 Mar 06 | Good to see u made up an opinion and share it with us. I think in some aspects u hit the point. Some critisism: If u are posting on MYM site _please_ have someone checking ur text for obvious gramatical errors. I find it really hard to read through a long text with so many mistakes; not to mention the notorious typographical problems (no spaces after full stop, colon...). That kind of frustrates me... sorry for being honest. |
#12 04.05.2008, 15:17 Posts : 7 Member since : 06 Dec 06 | That_kind_of_talking_is_my_st Spaces after full stop?Did i need to do that? About grammar mistakes:English is not my main language and i`ve prepared this text on my own,in a short time.Pardon me for them please =) Anyway i would be happy if you comment on my opinions. Thanks for reading though. |
#13 04.05.2008, 18:47 Posts : 13 Member since : 20 Mar 08 | ICEFROG is dick and needs nerfing..... sven was already balanced and bkb was already good, i wouldnt say bkb on sven is imba, and wtf sk was already balanced and still nerf him some more? zzzzzz.... he should just buff other heroes rather nerf the balanced |
#14 04.05.2008, 19:43 Posts : 1 Member since : 12 Mar 07 | There are so many ways to improve this map and make it ready for a mainstream e-sports event like CS was. Lots of good ideas from forumers alone. ONLY this is not a one man job, need like a team of 8 AT THE VERY LEAST, to do a decent job at that. And those good ideas usually never get the slightest consideration or even noticed at all. So sadly most of your good ideas and opinions go to waste and just makes more pla |
DotA Player  #15 04.05.2008, 21:55  Posts : 95 Member since : 23 Jan 05 | I disagree with everything stated in this topic and I think Icefrog is doing an awesome job. Also, my personal opinion on people expressing themselves through flaming such as "he is an idiot" and the likes, are that they, too, are idiots. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. ______________________ no re |
#16 05.05.2008, 00:01  Posts : 9 Member since : 26 Apr 07 | More heroes picked -> More variety -> More fun... I think Frog's doing an awesome job here too. :) ______________________ OMG it's shiny! |
#17 05.05.2008, 04:45  Posts : 206 Member since : 28 Jan 05 | I think IceFrog is doing a fine job with the changes he makes. Try not to forget that this is IceFrog's map and he has every right to make whatever changes he feels are needed. Complaining about it on multiple forums isnt going to accomplish anything. |
#18 05.05.2008, 15:41 Posts : 7 Member since : 06 Dec 06 | @Maelk Maybe it is u who should know who you are. |
#19 06.05.2008, 11:10  Posts : 2 Member since : 01 Apr 08 | Agreed with maelk ______________________ i will beat u one day! to the glory!! |
#20 06.05.2008, 11:23 Posts : 2 Member since : 02 May 08 | The only thing i do not like about the new maps is the bl Other than that...i think ice-frog is doing a good job ______________________ Beebo |
#21 06.05.2008, 12:23  Posts : 15 Member since : 25 Oct 07 | man i dont understand what you mean by stable changes,since it's exactly what he is doing,making the map ''stable'',it's just like your saying akasha can be beaten so easily aniway,or bb too.Since you also said the community makes dota go on(might be true but also competitive dota helps a lot),in ''community'' games you can always counter akasha or bb? In ar games with a bad ganking hero like abbadon how you expect to kill bb easily?those changes helps the community in which you cant always counter some hero, and same goes for bl Thanks for keeping alive the 2 sides of Dota,that would have been a better tread imo. Last edited by at 06.05.2008, 12:26 ______________________ I WILL DESTROY LOWERCASE OPPONENTS |
#22 06.05.2008, 12:53  Posts : 455 Member since : 16 Jan 07 | dear thread starter, your post is complete and utter bullshit. Becouse all you doing is weaken powerfull ones,while strengthen the weak ones So what do you think is balancing then, if not strenghen weak heroes and weaken the strong ones. Icefrog wants to provide a various range of tactics and he wants to prevent that you always see the same fuck-boring combinations in clan wars. That's the point of balancing. I don't say I agree with all of what Icefrog is doing but your idea of criticizm, dear thread starter, FAILS edit: Oh damn, I agreed with Maelk I see, now I bet I'm a brown-noser :( Last edited by at 06.05.2008, 12:55 |
#23 06.05.2008, 13:07  Posts : 2 Member since : 02 May 08 | I don't think IceFrog would make a new map again and besides he's trying to make all nerf to things. |
#24 19.05.2008, 10:40 Posts : 1 Member since : 19 May 08 | IceFrog is making DotA an equal or balanced game for everyone. If you are playing tekken 6 (its just a comparison ok? ^_^) is well balanced especially with the hero usage. And pla |
#25 23.05.2008, 18:40 Posts : 18 Member since : 26 Aug 07 | i also disagrees on this post.its awesome that he is nerfing some of heroes cuz its tired 2 picking and banning same heroes over and over again.now we will c diff line ups and not so unbalanced stuff.who isnt tired of old spectra who would kill whole team alone or bb who u would spend 2mins attacking just 2 hurt him a lil.i disagrees on some nerf and on some buffs but 90% bufs and nerf are ok |
#26 25.05.2008, 03:25 Posts : 6 Member since : 13 Feb 08 | let me control dota :P ______________________ *PaiN* StriKe lyK LiGhtnin |
#27 11.06.2008, 14:10 Posts : 3 Member since : 20 Mar 08 | This is an awful thread. 95% of the dota community would disagree with the things said about the new map here. The general consensus is that, although not perfect (which nothing is), Icefrog is working very hard with a dedicated team to take dota in a good direction. |
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