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StarCraft 2

17th May 2010, 06:40

MYM.Artosis: Over-nerfed

artosis, meetyourmakers, mym, over-nerfed

Despite being a highly-talented player who has dedicated his time and energy to being one of the very best StarCraft II players, it is United State- Dan 'Artosis' Stemkoski's commentative and evaluative skills that have earned him so much notoriety. In his latest evaluation of StarCraft II's characteristics, Artosis discusses the recent nerfs targeting the Zerg in Patch 12. Some of the concepts he explores include, but are not limited to, how the Zerg measure up to the Terrans and Protoss in competitive play and what races major players in South Korea play and how they compare to one another.

 

Dan 'Artosis' Stemkoski provides his expert opinion about the over-nerfing of the Zerg.

Over-Nerfed: Why Zerg Dominated Asia

Many people have wondered why the Asian StarCraft II Beta has been dominated by Zerg, while others have not. There are two reasons for this.

Zerg have less than the Protoss and Terran in this game. It's quite a simple concept. The Zerg have much less to work with.

Units usable in combat:

Zerg: 9

Terran: 12

Protoss: 14

 

This is a huge difference, especially when you consider that one of the Zerg units, the Ultralisk, is completely inferior to any other choice the Zerg have. This brings us down to eight units. Why does this make the Zerg better on the Asian server?

Streamlined learning. This is all that the Zerg has to work with. That means, the best units, ideas and strategies boil down much faster. There is simply less to test. StarCraft II is a very complex game, with many, many factors contributing to any situation. The Zerg have less of these factors. You have a very limited number of options. This doesn't make playing the Zerg easier, per sey, it just makes figuring out how to player the Zerg right easier. While other races are still around with three to five extra units, the Zerg already know what combination work and don't work. This makes every practice game a Zerg player plays worth more, as they are already past the testing phase.

 

There is one other reason, one which may weigh into it even more than the simplicity behind the previous reason. It is in the players who chose Zerg on the Asian server. First, let's state some things that should be obvious and accepted.

1) Korea is better at RTS games than any other nation in the world.

2) StarCraft is by far the most competitive RTS game in the world, especially in Korea.

3) The absurd majority of skilled gamers in Korea play or have played StarCraft professionally, both because of the competition and rewards of the game.

4) Going back in time in professional StarCraft I, you will find, on average, more free-styled and free-thinking players, due to the game being less developed.

5) This is StarCraft II. See #3.

So with these facts in mind, we will now go over which StarCraft I professional gamers are playing StarCraft II.

 

ZERG

Cool[fOu] - the top-ranking Korean Zerg. Ex-captain of eSTRO professional SC1 team.

TheWinD - a well-accomplished ProLeague player, regular in broadcasted TV matches.

SiR@SoNi - an extremely old school and respected Zerg player.

ZergLee - one of BoxeR's original picks to join his newly-formed pro-team, (now SKT1).

Junwi[saM] - a legendary old school Zerg, with 2nd and 3rd place in StarLeagues.

[z-zone]SoO - one of the greatest Zerg players of early StarCraft.

Within the Zerg lineup are some very influential Zerg players from the evolution of StarCraft.

 

PROTOSS

Tester[gm] - Ex-captain of eSTRO professional SC1 team. Tester has won the most tournaments so far and is considered the best player in Korea.

Tester stands alone as the only ex-professional SC1 player playing Protoss and dominates the scene.

 

TERRAN

Hannibal - Hannibal had a brief stint on a professional SC1 team, making no noise whatsoever.

It should be noted that one of the best Korean Terrans, known as Maka in SC2, was known as "TownHall" in Warcraft III. He was described by WC3 pros as "a good amateur".

 

Take a good, honest, unbiased look at the Korean SC2 scene as I have just described it. If Zerg was NOT dominating the Korean scene, THAT would mean that there is some sort of imbalance in the game. Sadly, things like this are clearly not taken into consideration (at least, not strongly enough), while patching the game.

What have the top Korean Zerg players been doing since the last Zerg nerf in Patch 12? Well, I can't speak for all of them, but two of the very top players, Cool[fOu] and TheWinD, have both been practicing Terran on the Asian Ladder.

* Please note that I am sure that I have missed some of the ex-pros who are playing SC2 in Korea. I left out GARIMTO because he is playing Random.

 


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Comments (16)

 

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(3 months ago)  #1 Doso
Doso
1. WC3 China, Grubby, Madfrog etc.
2. WC3 in China, but you are probably right.

People switching races in the beta, what a shocker!
Seems Zerg no longer is macro a-click easy win?
(3 months ago)  #2 NightEnD
 
out of curiosity have blizzard said "we are nerfing the zerg becouse 80% of the top players in koreea are zergs" ?
(3 months ago)  #10 sOOnMaNiAc
sOOnMaNiAc
that would be really really sick
Don´t wait for getting lucky. Work for it!
(3 months ago)  #3 SK-Dynasty
SK-Dynasty
Well actually no, they didn't say such a thing. However, they seem to feel like the zerg overpoweres the other races with it's force to expand and mass units rapidly. That's probably one of the reasons for the roach nerf in patch 12. It's pretty obvious though that Blizzard also takes into consideration the win/lose rates of these races. For example, the protoss and zerg players win most of the time,while only few top terrans win once in a while. Have you seen a serious terran nerf lately? (You can get my point here, do ya?)
(3 months ago)  #4 rPFakePlasticTree
 
o Thor

+ Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125.
+ Model size reduced to match new radius.
(3 months ago)  #5 SK-Dynasty
SK-Dynasty
thor wasn't used much anyways so you can't really call it a major nerf. And btw, Thor still powns :P
Besides that, the model reduction is quite a buff, not a nerf :)
Last edited by SK-Dynasty at 17.05.2010, 13:30
(3 months ago)  #6 fattycop
 
The section that says zerg have 9 units used "in combat" versus Protoss' 14 is very wrong. First of all, what does "in combat" even mean. Can the unit attack? is it used in "battle"? Do you actively use it during the game? Now we can argue that all day but lets get down to the 9 versus 14 debate.

This is what I assume the 9 zerg units are: 1.zegling 2.roach 3.hydralisk 4.mutalisk 5.baneling 6.corruptor 7.Infestor 8.Ultralisk 9.brood lord.

This is what I assume the 14 protoss units are: 1.zealot 2.stalker 3.sentry 4.dark templar 5.high templar 6.Archon 7.Immortal 8.Colossus 9.Warp Prism
10.Observer 11.Phoenix 12.Void Ray 13.Carrier 14. Mothership

Now how can you claim that an observer is an "in combat" unit but an Overseer isn't, or even the changeling. Same can be said about a Warp Prism and the Overlord. Hell the overlord has even more purposes than drops because of spreading creep, which IMO makes him more of an "in combat" unit. Ultralisk is useless but so is the mothership. Oh and you aren't including the Queen as an "in combat" unit when its defenses can practically win/lose you the game when being rushed by air.
Last edited by fattycop at 17.05.2010, 14:30
(3 months ago)  #7 MYM|ArtosisMEDIA
 
i didnt mean to count the observer. its a simple mistake. 9 vs 13.
(3 months ago)  #8 MYM|ArtosisMEDIA
 
oh, and the queen isn't really a combat unit. its better to consider it like a defensive structure, like a cannon or a planetary fortress.
(3 months ago)  #11 germanengineered
 
Um, Artosis.... you going to address the fact that Warp Prism is no more an offense unit than overloards? What about fattycop's point about the mothership/ultralisk both being useless... not to mention the queen being discounted as a unit. How do you reply to fattycop's post that absolutely DESTROYS your "unit count" argument by ignoring 70% of what it said? Dodger :)

Just because all the Zerg noobs spam a few units doesn't mean there aren't more tactics available. I would argue that it's about time Zerg got a nerf so they are forced to adapt from spam to a little more diversity. You're just used to macro and A-move wins. Time to adapt like everyone else has had to do.
Last edited by germanengineered at 17.05.2010, 21:04
(3 months ago)  #9 Swicky
 
Wise words Artosis.. things like this make it evident why you are my favorite zerg player :D lol
(3 months ago)  #12 MYM|ArtosisMEDIA
 
i didn't address those things because they are so ignorantly wrong. i guess i just assume people know more about high level play than they do. sorry about that :P

1) Warp Prism is used in battle all the time for reinforcing your army.
2) Mothership we aren't sure of yet as to usefulness. Same with BattleCruiser. Ultralisk we are sure of though. Its completely outclassed.

and no, zerg didn't get the nerf to become more diverse. high level players already used a ton of hydra/ling.
(3 months ago)  #15 germanengineered
 
Apparently you aren't smart enough to identify the flaws in your argument. Anyone can see that an overlord has offensive use with the right upgrades. Either laying down creep for expo denial, for fast unit advancement, transporting units behind enemy lines, baneling drops on the enemy army, etc.. This is easily equal to the Warp Prism, and it's silly to say otherwise.

Your argument of usable unit counts is entirely based on opinions... heavily flawed opinions. I would expect more from someone that people seem to respect (for reasons I have yet to see). You appear to be just another whining nerd with an opinion.
(3 months ago)  #13 z1ggy0
 
but Artosis.....

why do you count Archon, if Blizzard had stated so many times its a recycle unit, even to the point they dont want to buff it because of that! So if you count archon, you might as well count broodlings that spawn from destroyed zerg buildings and broodlords! they serve same purpose to just be there and die

what about infested terrans? they are a unit. recycle like archon.

and counting medivac and prisms and obs but not ovis/overseer aswell

very ignorant

im just kidding youre right zerg is limited and needs more units/spells. but as you can see, they are not necesarily limited by number of units :) just units that can actualy do usefull stuff in battle and are not 1dimensional. but blizz likes roach/mara/immortal type of units so hmm. im sure everything will be fine by the end of beta, its blizz they gonna patch it! wait what beta ends may 31st? so that means retail is going to be like this? why i didnt see that coming for 4 months now....
(3 months ago)  #14 SK-Dynasty
SK-Dynasty
Well, technically, overseers can count as field units but overlords count more as supply depots,meaning structures...
Well, all of you seem to think the zerg is nerfed as it is, yet i personally don't agree.
When i play sc2 for example, i always win against terrans and protoss, yet i lose big time against zerg.
I play protoss btw.

Some players say " woooh, the roaches such and the protoss units rape everything.".
Well, with a protoss economy u can make like 400 psi worth of units if you control at least 50% of the minerals and gas that the map offers. The zerg can make more units, for less resources that in the end, overcome the protoss army.
Last edited by SK-Dynasty at 18.05.2010, 16:55
(2 months ago)  #16 join123
 
good! go go go!dota items

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