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22nd June 2008, 14:55

MYM]Grubby about the WC3L Finals

After the WC3L Finals in China finished, replays.net picked up Netherlands MYM]Grubby for an interview to basically talk about that event and some of the issues that happened there. myMYM.com translated it for you from Chinese to English!

 

Firstly congratulations on winning the WC3L season 13 championship.

Thank you.

This is your first time playing a tournmanet in Chang Sha, China. What's your impression and how do you feel about the place?

I felt Chang Sha is less densely populated than other cities I have visited - WuHan, XiAn and Beijing. Yet, the stadium was quite full. I heard some fans fly from other Chinese cities to come to Chang Sha. That's wonderful.

This is the first time China is hosting the WC3L offline finals, what do you think about the organization of the tournament?

There were some things I was really happy about:

  1. Inside the gaming box on the stage, there was a very good airconditioning. With power of level 1 to level 9, you could reach the perfect temperature. I think it's the best airconditioning I've ever had in a box!
  2. There were flatscreens and CRT monitors both, and both were fine. Also, I didn't have any PC problems myself.
  3. There was a resting room for players, which gives people some relaxation when necessary.
  4. The staff was very helpful when we wanted to order food or walk around.
  5. There was not much delay.

I believe there were some serious problems which should be fixed if WC3L finals will be held in China again. These bad points are:

  1. Virus and worm on every PC greatly increase set-up time and infects all USB Sticks, disabling their use.
  2. Disconnects and power outages are some of the worst thing which can happen. It should be prevented.
  3. Sometimes it was hard to discuss things about the progress of the tournament, because there are many referees and there was not 1 clear head-referee where you could discuss any problems.
  4. The shoutcast was audible in the boxes. I know some Chinese words, like the names for Gargoyle, Blademaster, Frost Wyrm, and when I was in the box I could hear some of these when I wouldn't be wearing my headset or have very low sound. But, I used headset from SteelSeries and it is very good for me. I couldn't hear anything when I used it.


How did you feel when you represented MYM in WC3L and won the season?


When I was hired by MYM, I expressed in some interviews that I hoped I could show good results in WC3L and NGL for MYM.

WC3L is a very important event to me because it's played with the whole team. It increases good feelings in the team and it's important to increase stability in the team. It's also really exciting to watch team-members play their matches.

When we won, it was amazing, because it was a real team performance. Everyone played their crucial role, in line-up discussion, in choosing what's best for the team, in practicing and in their performance and results.

To criticism about Lucifer or Susiria, I wish to say they should consider what maps Lucifer & Susi played. They played against incredibly strong Fly and ToD, on maps like LT (vs orc) and TS (vs hum). They had no complaint about it, because they wished to win as a team. Perhaps if I was stronger against Orc, I would be able to play Fly on LT.


How did all of you celebrate after winning the WC3L season 13?

We finished at 1 AM in the night. We didn't eat a normal meal the whole day. Starting at 9 AM in the morning, we eat only what groceries Cassandra did for the team (she wakes up earlier and took care of the team). We had banana's, apples, chips, raisins, chocolates, cookies, paprika's, coca cola, energy drinks, bapaos (bread buns with meat or vegetable).

So, at 1 AM we went to eat something. At 3:30 AM we were at home. We had to wake up and pack our bags at 5 AM, because our flight was at 8:20 AM. Some of us slept, some of us stayed awake. There was no time to celebrate.


For all the matches in the finals , which one is most memorable to you?

The most memorable series was Moon vs Hasuobs Series 1 (TM & TR). First game was 1 hour 6 minutes, and in the second game Moon was incredibly aggressive on close position Turtle Rock.

The other most memorable game was Lucifer and Susiria playing vs ReMinD game 3. Susiria had a long game vs Remind on TM, and Remind had a secret expansion. Lucifer was playing 12+ gargs, but in every fight he didn't use them, so Remind had no use of his hippogryphs.

Which player has given you a great impression during the finals?

I personally thought Fly and ToD did very well winning almost all their matches, and also ReiGn in beating InFi 2:0.


How do you feel about the Orc players in China? Such as xiaOt, LiKe and Fly100%.

I've always liked xiaOt, he is one of the "old players" together with me. LikE and FLY are more new talents. I love watching their replays, too. They play in a different style, and I try to learn their style as well. If I have to characterize them, I would say:

xiaOt - oldschool player, tricky player with great ideas. Master strategist.

LikE - pushes every unit to its limit, and concentrates on playing 1 style per match-up. Very aggressive.

Fly - very good micro, terrifying blademaster. Sometimes plays illogical. Fighter-style player, specializes in fights.

In the final match against mouz, the 2v2 game against them was the key to victory. How do you feel about that and what is the difference between teaming up with Moon and Tod?

Moon has an excellent grasp of 2v2, just like ToD. But Hasuobs, fly and Yumiko are less experienced 2v2 players. The teamwork will suffer. Moon and I had less communication problems because we played in LAN, and not on-line.

But, sometimes it was funny. Once, I asked him to give me "Gold", and he thought i said "Go!". So, he was going to attack without me! Haha.


In the game between Fly and Lucifer, do you think Fly bought the Troll Batrider because he heard the broadcast?

I don't know, I never said that he did. Fly scouted Lucifer's base and saw 2crypt - which means Gargoyles. It was not important whether or not Fly heard it. If he heard it, it is not Fly's mistake. It's the organisation's mistake. I warned various officials of the tournament several times that there is a possibility that the shoutcast is overheard in the Playing Box on stage.

Sometimes they turned the shoutcast down, but later they turned it on again. I am not accusing any players, like Fly, or other players. But I believe the shoutcasters are doing a dirty job. When Fly was playing Lucifer, the shoutcasters shouted very loudly what Lucifer was doing, or what Fly should be doing. They would say "Lucifer's Altar is almost finished reviving the DK! Kill it now, kill it!".

Or when Lucifer's tech appeared to be Gargs, they yelled "Tian huay" ('sky ghost' or?), which I know means "Gargoyles!" or "Bin long!" which is Frostwyrm (ice dragon). When ToD was playing Moon, they switched to English and said "Warden!! Warden!". It's not ToD's fault if he hears it, and I am not saying he heard it. The organisation should test the sound level in the box, this sort of mistake can't happen in WC3L. When HasuObs was playing Moon, they yelled "Surround! Surround!", in English.


I believe it's very unprofessional when this happens.

I heard from many people that the Chinese shoutcast can be unprofessional. They can be very annoying and bitchy.

Let me be clear: the shoutcaster has the following job:

  1. Describe the action which is happening (hasuobs is going to the island)
  2. Discuss possible strategies (this strategy is interesting - fov also played it in PGL)
  3. Make the action exciting (oh my god hero survives with 7 HP!)

The shoutcaster should not:

  1. Tell a player what to do, before he does it (kill the BM! Kill the BM!)
  2. Show exaggerated favoritism. It's acceptable to support Chinese players when you are Chinese shoutcaster, but please keep it moderate. Be fair and objective and respect all players.
  3. Yell constantly. Saying something louder doesn't make it more exciting. WC3 is already very interesting to watch. The loudness may increase in fights because it is exciting, but describe what players did well, don't say what they should be doing.

There was one problem where I went onto the stage to ask the commentators to reduce their volume to 0. When I asked other people, the result was that no action was taken several times.

Because of the inaction, I ran onto stage in anger. I was unaware the game of Luci/Fly was started. It was not the best way to deal with the problem, but it was the fastest way. In the future, I should discuss such problems before the event. But, despite assurances of shoutcast being inaudible, it often proves otherwise. This is quite regrettable.

So when I was on stage, I asked the shoutcasters to turn off their cast to the stage, because it can affect the players. They said they can reduce it a little. I don't know by how much they will reduce it, so to be sure, I asked them to turn it off completely.

I said there is a chance that Fly can overhear Lucifer's tech before he scouts it. Also, Lucifer can hear anything if he knows some Chinese words. I personally hate to hear the shoutcast when I'm playing, even if it could lend me an unfair advantage. So, I am always trying to make sure there is no soundlevel problem.

I also feel sorry for Fly and Yumiko that they might overhear the shoutcast while they are playing. If they can hear it, I am sure that they don't like it too.

TaiLong also took his freedom to write a blog full of lies. You must understand that TaiLong always compliments me, greets me happily and says he likes me a lot. Imagine my surprise when I heard the lies he is spreading.

He said that in his blog:

  1. I said Fly is hearing the shoutcast and using the knowledge to unfairly cheat in the game.
  2. I do not believe in the professionalism of the shoutcasters.
  3. The boxes are 100% soundproof. He invited the Chinese fans to come onto stage and test the boxes for themselves if they don't believe it.

To the fans that were present at the WC3L live:

  1. I said it's POSSIBLE, not that it happened. It means it's the organisations' mistake, not the player's mistake. It's also acceptable to make mistakes for the organisation, as long as it's fixed quickly.
  2. It is true, I don't believe the shoutcasters are professional. Especially after what happened.
  3. The boxes are not 100% soundproof. Why lie about it? Also, TaiLong must know that Chinese Fans can't come onto stage to test them out. It is a useless request - fans are not allowed onto the stage.

TaiLong and his friends continued to twist my words and tell lies about me to the public. I am glad I am able to tell my side of the story to you.

Tailong's english is quite bad, so it's possible that he misunderstood me. Why he doesn't come to me personally to talk about something like that, I don't know. He would rather write a blog to publicly attack me.

ESL brought special headphones from Europe which block out sound very well, but none of the players used this headset. Everyone used their own headset, or in-ear pieces. TaiLong implied in his blog that the special ESL headphones were being used... which is not true.

TaiLong also lied about the replay incident of MYM / Mouz 2v2 game. I said I watched 2-3 minutes of the game. That doesn't mean in 8x Speed. It means Game Time. There is almost nothing to see. He said I watch 8 x speed for 2-3 minutes. With the game only being 10 minutes long, how is that possible? 2 - 3 x 8 = 16-24 minutes of gametime. Again, I don't understand why TaiLong is lying about it.

In the second BO5 game between MYM and mouz, the 2v2 played a crucial role in the team's victory again. When there were some problem with Fly's computer, he paused the game, but after the game was resumed, you and Moon managed to win the match.

But the manager of MOUZ claimed that you watched the replay of that match when the game was stopped as Fly's computer was having some problem, can you tell us more about what exactly happened?

Lie said that Lucifer, ReminD, Lyn and Reis were all very angry with me. This is not true. I am on good terms with everyone and they were not angry with me. It is hurtful that Lie will claim such things when it's not true.

I believe Mouz vs MYM 2v2 issue was a moral issue. Officially, it is not in the ESL rulebook that you may not watch the replay after the game is saved. I didn't break any rules. However, it is more of a moral issue. Morally, I felt it is wrong what I did in the game vs Fly & Yumiko. I am sorry for what I did and I apologised to Fly personally, and also to the WC3L staff. When something is morally wrong, usually a rule should be found to prevent such behaviour.

The rules in every kinds of sport are constantly being sharpened to make the game more honest. As the game evolves, there will of course be new rules. Look at cycling, where drugs test are now being performed. It is important to have fair rules, and to have clean rules. The rules should not be open to interpretation.

In comparison, in ROTK there was a different incident with TH000. The rules stated that it is not permitted to pause the game without requesting firstly. TH000 technically made a foul in pausing it firstly without asking, which could be considered cheating according to the rules. However, I could forgive him for this thing because he had a computer problem. Afterwards, he resumed the game when I wasn't looking.

Later TH000 said it was a mistake. I trust that he did not do it on purpose. However, a few seconds of game-time had passed during a battle. The referee stated that "although the rules indeed state what TH000 did is a foul, the form of punishment was not stated". It is not necessary to state what the consequence should be. Of course there should be a regame. I should not be punished for something I didn't do wrong.

Additionally, TH000 and wNv watched the whole replay together, before a decision was made. It was morally wrong and we were very angry about it too. Instead, the referees told me that we can continue the game without punishment for TH000 or I shall receive a default loss.

Furthermore, the ROTK referees should be knowledgeable about the rules and clear in their judgment. I can only hope that when eSports continues to grow, the referees can become more professional.

In the end there are only two things that matter. Ethics and rules. Rules should be followed, and when broken there should be a punishment. As for ethics, I admit that what I did against Mouz was unethical, and my state of mind at the time or reasons are irrelevant. For this, I can assure it will not happen again, and I apologise.

About my feelings: When Fly saved the game, our position in the game was good. I felt quite confident we were going to win. What Fly did was very noble. He knew he was going to drop, so he saved the game quickly - rescuing the game from becoming unplayable.

  1. I didn't need to watch the replay to win the game - our position was already good and we could win without the help of the rep, even if the other team also watch it.
  2. Fly never did anything bad to me - in fact I like him a lot.
  3. WC3L is a very professional league, and it's not the same as ROTK - I should not hold one person's mistakes against another - and one organization's mistakes to another.
  4. I should not throw away my principles because of anger or other injustice. I have never watched the replay of a save game before, even when I am at home playing an on-line game. I was very sorry that I did it, and that's why I quit after 2-3 minutes of gametime.

Despite of all this, I want to say that there had been no effect on the game at all by my mistake. Don't believe everything before you hear the whole story, and don't disparage Moon, Lucifer and Susiria's results by saying this incident somehow affected the outcome.

I will continue to have faith in the professionalism of all tournaments, and will try to follow a fair and righteous course in all my actions. I have made mistakes in the past, and I can't change my actions. I can only look at them, explain them, and try to do better in the future.

Thanks and really appreciate your time for the interview, once again congrats on winning WC3L season 13. Good luck and all the best for you and MYM.
-
Thanks for reading, thank you for your congratulations. Sorry it became a bit long ^.^

 


Source: Replays.net


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Comments (136)

 

Page :
  • 1
(5 months ago)  #1 myMYM|Frozenik
Frozenik
:)
(5 months ago)  #2 myMYM|imported_flashy
imported_flashy
grubby fighting!
play more!!
(5 months ago)  #3 myMYM|Elven_Star
Elven_Star
This interview was long and at the same time really enjoyable.
hmm...Moon vs. Hasu game2 on TR, gotta take a look at it, don't wanna miss aggressive Moon!
(Here's the link for those who are interested: http://www.mymym.com/en/demos/17206.html)

TaiLong ~~
Grubby <3
Last edited by Elven_Star at 21.06.2008, 20:10

Elen sila lumenn omentilmo
(5 months ago)  #4 4KFStenGah
StenGah
TaiLong also lied about the replay incident of MYM / Mouz 2v2 game. I said I watched 2-3 minutes of the game. That doesn't mean in 8x Speed. It means Game Time. There is almost nothing to see. He said I watch 8 x speed for 2-3 minutes. With the game only being 10 minutes long, how is that possible? 2 - 3 x 8 = 16-24 minutes of gametime. Again, I don't understand why TaiLong is lying about it.

TaiLong got so fucking pwnd! grubbys maths > tailong!
tailong should go back to school! even my maths > tailong!
(5 months ago)  #5 GKoOBaKsuZ
BaKsuZ
MY HERO :D
www.Four-Kings.com
(5 months ago)  #6 wNv|VBadGirl
VBadGirl
"I didn't need to watch the replay to win the game - our position was already good and we could win without the help of the rep"

Why did you still do it if you were so sure of your victory?

Hold the S cause i'm an AINT.
(5 months ago)  #12 myMYM|The1Crow
The1Crow
Totally pointless to ask that, totally!
Some ppl come into our lives and quickly go. Some stay ever!
(5 months ago)  #13 wNv|VBadGirl
VBadGirl
I don't believe is totally pointless as long as he says he found himself to be in a good position and expected to win? What was the purpose of him watching that? Unless he was lying and he was not so confident in that 'win' after all. It's a contradiction of terms in my POV.

Also the person who advise him to conceive his statement that way was smart. The words are well picked and deceiving at some point. Lets talk about ROTK incident and how I forgave TH000 hoping ppl will do the same for me.

Mkay.. but I still to know an answer to my question although.

Hold the S cause i'm an AINT.
(5 months ago)  #19 myMYM|The1Crow
The1Crow
Sometimes things happen that you cannot explain.

He said sorry, chapter closed. Accept it or not.

Some ppl come into our lives and quickly go. Some stay ever!
(5 months ago)  #20 XATMO8G
 
First of it wasn't in the rules. And like he said it was more of a ethical thing than an official thing. They should really have a rule for this.

As to why he watched the replay I think he was just in a bad state of mind. He might not have remembered that hes playing a game thats live and its more of a habit thing. These guys were tired playing the whole day. Im sure you as a manager should know.

The incident in ROTK with TH000 all came down to rules. And its true, he forgived TH000 for doing that and TH000 did not receive any punishment so is it right for Grubby to receive punishment here? Again I blame the organization for all this. Maybe they should stop hosting stuff in China and move back to Korea, the home of esports.

As for shoutcasts, I love them and I watched the whole of wc3l live, but they shouldn't do it on stage, do it in a studio or let the players play in a studio.
(5 months ago)  #25 wNv|VBadGirl
VBadGirl
... it wasn't in the rules. he was wrong to do so and he even admits it to be this way. still, it doesn't makes him any less guilty.

Bad state of mind.. interesting but it would be nice for him to say that.

@crow nope his apology letter pretty much send out the wrong message. If you actually read between the lines pretty much says: " sorry, I know I am wrong, I am guilty and I admit it, but please forgive me, because I also forgave and also other broke the rules, so it should be okay for me to do so as well".

In addition trying to discredit other ppl and make you lose focus from the real issue. Shout casters, boxes not sound proof, bla bla..

Good try but not good enough, well not at least for me.

Hold the S cause i'm an AINT.
(5 months ago)  #30 GKoOBaKsuZ
BaKsuZ
In addition trying to discredit other ppl and make you lose focus from the real issue. Shout casters, boxes not sound proof, bla bla..

Isn't he just answering questions? :/

www.Four-Kings.com
(5 months ago)  #33 wNv|VBadGirl
VBadGirl
well when I said that i was referring to tailong calling him a lier and him being the victim.. like an entire soap opera actually.

try to ask yourself, what was the real reason behind this interview?

Hold the S cause i'm an AINT.
(5 months ago)  #125 Bas1cz
 
Drama Queen?
(5 months ago)  #31 XATMO8G
 
He did not say that its OK for him to do it. Yes it is partly his fault for watching the replay, but again no one said he could not. And he has already apologized and admit that he is guilty in a way. And if you look at it this happened to him before in ROTK and he had to continue the match so in this case its the same thing. Im sure you would know because TH000 is one of your players.

And even if they did do a re-game, Im pretty sure MYM would have still won because Mouz were down 1 set anyways. And if you look at the replay when Fly saved it, the match was clearly on MYM's side.
(5 months ago)  #34 GKoOBaKsuZ
BaKsuZ
Grubby said that he did the wrong thing, (still I think it's a smart thing what he did, but I'm not gonna talk about that again) so no matter how the game was played it's still wrong.
And he apologized for God sake! What else do you want BadGirl?

www.Four-Kings.com
(5 months ago)  #39 wNv|VBadGirl
VBadGirl
I agree he apologized but he it in the wrong manner. I want him to apologize straight, no bullshit, no boxes weren't sound proof, the tournaments had shortcomings, Chinese are biased, tailong is lying.. BOHOO!!

Plain and simple: "I was wrong, I shouldn't have done so, I don't expect fans to forgive me for my act but i hope they will in the end. I made a mistake and I am sorry."

Hold the S cause i'm an AINT.
(5 months ago)  #44 GKoOBaKsuZ
BaKsuZ
Morally, I felt it is wrong what I did in the game vs Fly & Yumiko. I am sorry for what I did and I apologised to Fly personally, and also to the WC3L staff.


Is this what you're looking for?

www.Four-Kings.com
(5 months ago)  #103 Amandahot
 
Really Badgirl, He isnt accused Of murder..!
He made a flaw, an error, like THOO did.
He apologized and thats that.

And what is it to you i may ask? It was against Mouz, not wNv. So really mind your own business, and get your own players straight before shooting at others... But i guess you have to lash out against grubby, to take the attention away from THOO.

You are a sad person critizising other players for viewing replays during a pause, without it being illegal(according to rules), When your own players is worse, Doing the same, with it being illegal(as stated in ROTK´s rules)
(5 months ago)  #36 wNv|VBadGirl
VBadGirl
The thing was that TH000 felt he had issues with his PC, he wanted to pause the game to prevent altering his game.

And i agree he should have asked for permission to pause the game but tell me how exactly you do that when you actually are in the heat of the game, battling and microing? I dont see any other way beside actually pausing the game and explaining after why you did it. It was not in a bad faith or bad intentions.

The case with th000 vs grubby it was already a case closed, Grubby would have lost 100% while the 2v2 wasn't yet clear of that. Perhaps it was favoring MYM as you say but it's not like mouz lost the game 100% like it was the case of grubby vs th000.

Hold the S cause i'm an AINT.
(5 months ago)  #35 Vilebat
 
badgirl, you're wrong. He never justified in anyway that it was ok for him to do so cause the others did it too. He literally apologized about his actions.

you seem very negative and dissatisfied at your life. Be logical and stop being emotional.
(5 months ago)  #41 wNv|VBadGirl
VBadGirl
then what was the whole purpose of his touching emotional story about him forgiving TH000 about the incident at ROTK?

and now why are you trying to trow dirt at me and my life? what relevance it has in this case ? just because you are running out of arguments now it's lets pick on my life. What's next my spelling and my grammar?

Hold the S cause i'm an AINT.
(5 months ago)  #56 GKoOBaKsuZ
BaKsuZ
@ Vilebat: I agree with you on your argument, but comments about someones life leave at home next time.

@BadGirl: The emotional (to you maybe) story about TH000 and ROTK is a story that can be relate to this one.

www.Four-Kings.com
(5 months ago)  #64 wNv|VBadGirl
VBadGirl
hmm interesting how can it related to? like rotti was saying its a world of difference between the 2 cases. But I am willing to listen how these 2 things relate.
Hold the S cause i'm an AINT.
(5 months ago)  #65 GKoOBaKsuZ
BaKsuZ
Grubby watched a replay that he shouldn't have, TH000 watched a replay that he shouldn't have.

see the similarity?

www.Four-Kings.com
(5 months ago)