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DotA as chess is now some sort of column about DotA. I'll write about things I feel like writing, with a special focus on the strategic side of the game. Because of this, the first DotA as chess is now DotA as chess #0.

THE COMEBACK OF THE TRILANE AS A VIABLE STRATEGY

People might remember Prime Defending #4 and #5, where trilanes were a very common strategy. FearDarkness' coL used that strategy a lot and made their way until the semi-finals, where FearDarkness' mother owned coL. I can remember pretty strange trilanes back then. You don't? Then, look at some examples, that can be found on DotA Allstars forum archive (http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=129724). I'll write here three good examples, from Prime Defending #5. If you haven't watched this games, then do it, especially the first game, featuring Merlini's Zeus vs Vigoss' Tinker. You can find the replays on myMYM. Prepare youself to feel nostalgic:

maGe vs. MYM.DotA #1

Magic aGe Sentinel
(top) maGe]VigosS = Tinker
(mid) maGe]Jolie = Silencer
(bot) maGe]Bailly = Queen of Pain
(bot) maGe]GashY = Lich
(bot) maGe]HoroN = Warlock

MYM.DotA Scourge
(top) MYM|Merlini = Lord of Olympia
(mid) MYM|H4nn1- = Shadow Fiend
(bot) MYM|Maelk = Vengeful Spirit
(bot) MYM|LevenT = Slayer
(bot) MYM|Fang = Sand King

maGe vs. MYM.DotA #2

MYM DotA Sentinel
(top) MYM|Maelk = Tormented Soul
(top) MYM|LevenT = Slayer
(top) MYM|Fang = Sand King
(bot) MYM|Merlini = Silencer
(mid) MYM|H4nn1- = Tinker

Magic aGe Scourge
(top) maGe]Jolie = Netherdrake
(mid) maGe]GashY = Warlock
(bot) maGe]HoroN = Oblivion
(bot) maGe]Bailly = Vengeful Spirit
(bot) maGe]VigosS = Queen of Pain

maGe vs. MYM.DotA #3

Magic aGe Sentinel
(top) maGe]GashY = Slayer
(top) maGe]Bailly = Vengeful Spirit
(top) maGe]HoroN = Oblivion
(mid) maGe]Jolie = Netherdrake
(bot) maGe]VigosS = Queen of Pain

MYM.DotA Scourge
(top) MYM|p0c = Warlock
(mid) MYM|Merlini = Tinker
(bot) MYM|H4nn1- = Shadow Fiend
(bot) MYM|MaNia- = Sand King
(bot) MYM|LevenT = Tormented Soul

Take a look at the trilanes we have here. In one of them we have Queen of Pain - can you imagine, today, this Hero on a trilane? We have another trilane with a Shadow Fiend. Today you can look at this and ask youself "Shadow Fiend? On a Trilane?". The point is, trilanes were very popular at that time. But the trilanes started to disappear when jungle heroes were incorporated to the competitive scene. The Global strategy, that gives you the ability to be everywhere in the map, also countered trilanes, since the heroes on a trilane tend to get weak (level-wise) and become food. Now, look again at the trilanes and ask youself: what was their plans with that trilane? Do they have any other plan than simply owning the lane with lots of disabling heroes?

DotA changed a lot and, after disappearing for a long time, trilanes have returned as a strategy. Asian and europeans starte to use trilanes once again.

Here's one example, from Pick-League's finals:

Fnatic vs. MYM.DotA

Fnatic Sentinel
(top) MYMSlayer|M = Priestess of the Moon
(top) fnatic.Miracle = Tidehunter (obs: Miracle eventually went bot)
(mid) fnatic.kwom = Lord of Olympia
(bot) fnaticMSI.Lolda = Slithereen Guard
(bot) MiioMiio|Ducky = Warlock

MYM.DotA Scourge
(Top) MYM|MaNia- = Sand King
(mid) MYM|KuroKy = Tinker
(bot) MYM|miGGel = Demon Witch
(bot) MYM|AngeL = Spectre
(bot) MYM|PusHer = Vengeful Spirit

Now look again at the trilane and ask youself what was their plans. You'll eventually discover that MYM's plan was to over-support Spectre with two strong
support heroes, Lion and VS, allowing Spectre to quickly farm his Radiance and control the game. Most trilanes seen follows the same idea: a lane build with
two support heroes, siding with a carry hero (Dragon Knight, Spectre, etc).

Now that we have a small vision from past and present, think with youself: what we're seeing is the return of an old strategy (the trilanes), or we're seeing something new? Maruchan Ramen's innovation is striking once again?

VENGEFUL SPIRIT, LION AND CRYSTAL MAIDEN: TOP PICKS, TOP BANS

Take a look at the last ten replays you watched and check if Vengeful Spirit, Lion or Crystal Maiden aren't picked or banned. You'll see that they're oftenly first picked and banned. If we think that, in the past, teams used to ban and firstpick some imbalanced hero (like Undying, for example), you can start wonder why teams are now firstpicking these three support heroes. So, why are they firstpicking them and not some carry hero with a huge winning percentage, like in the recent past?

I believe the answer lies in versatility. When you firstpick a huge carry, you're almost screaming to your opponent that you'll build your game around him. That gives the opponent a chance to counterpick and destroy your strategy. When you pick VS, Lion or Crystal Maiden, you don't exactly tell your opponent how
your game will be played. They're not only very good support heroes, with disables and other useful skills, but they fit in lots of different strategies. You can build strong dual-lanes with them; you can make them roam around the map and unleash hell on the opponent; you can lastpick a huge carry and over-support him. There are lots of strategy circling around these heroes, and this makes your game more unpredictable, giving trouble to your opponent. And not knowing what will happen or what lanes you'll build can crush your opponent game and give you a huge advantage.

To counter this unpredictability, teams can ban these versatile heroes. That happened once in DotA gold era, where MYM.DotA and Virtus dominated the scene, where Lina Inverse and Leshrac were top-picks, appearing at all games. Maelk started banning those heroes, forcing teams to pick other heroes and making them walk into unknown territory. But today we have one more factor: banning those popular heroes also makes the game a little more predictable and under your control.

If this is right, these heroes will soon become top bans. The question is: banning heroes that makes the game unpredictable necessarily makes the game predictable?

URSA WARRIOR

After Cybertime's crushing victory against StarsBoba using Ursa Warrior, some teams that played the same strategy were criticized. People say that they're 'copying the strategy', 'copying even the item build'. What do they want? That someone go apeshit and rush Guinsoo with Ursa?

Let's make a memory exercise. Try to remember the first time you saw Ursa warrior in a competitive game. My memory points me to Clanbase Tournament finals, XsK vs. IGG. Just google "XsK Ursa" and you'll find the replay. Here's the bans and picks:

BANS (IGG first): Nerubian Assassin, Beastmaster, Zeus, BristleBack, Warlock, Spectre
PICKS (IGG first): Sand King, Priestess of the Moon + Queen of Pain, Leshrac + Lina, Sven + Viper, Silencer + Tiny, Ursa Warrior

IGG Sentinel
(top) IGGFrenzzy = Lina Inverse
(top) Eq8Ball = Tiny
(mid) IGGTzaboa = Leshrac
(mid) IGGDiabolik = Sand King
(bot) astra = Silencer

XsK Scourge
(top) XsK_Enigma = Queen of Pain
(jungle) Puppet = Ursa
(mid) XsK_GunZ = Viper
(mid) Mishanya = Sven
(bot) XsK_DarKy = Priestess of the Moon

Back there, XsK used jungle Ursa and thrased IGG, winning Clanbase tournament. It's the first time I recall seeing Ursa on competitive scene. After winning the game, Puppey said why the team picked Ursa: "Mostly the fact that they had no heroes to actually go against that hero. Ursa demolished most of the heroes. And ursa is pro man". This match was played two years ago. After this sole appearance, Ursa recently resurfaced, thanks to StarsBoba, Cybertime and nfinity, the three using the best of Ursa's thrashing potential. If we think like the mob, the three are just using (copying?) a possibility opened by XsK in the past.

In chess, no player owns the sicilian or the scotch openings. The same happens with DotA: no teams have copyrights on picks or strategy. Good and stable teams must be able to play all kinds of strategy.

SMM IS APPROACHING!

SMM is getting close. It'll be the hugest DotA offline event, with a very nice pool prize. Some months ago, after watching a game where StarsBoba used Ursa's strategy, I thought "Wow, they'll own everyone on SMM". Then Cybertime came and owned StarsBoba with Templar Assassin and Ursa (please, IceFrog, make Fury Swipes work only against heroes, killing Roshan alone isn't good for the game), showing that they'll be very strong at SMM. Now, cD came and won against Cybertime and Templar Assassin's imbalance.

Now add to this pool: MYM (will Maelk be on top-form? Should they send KuroKy? I think they should), Kingsurf (Yamateh is lurking from the shadows, just waiting to unleash his weapons), EHOME, old XcN/Fnatic led by Lakuci, MCiTY, DTS (let Light carry!) and other very strong teams, and try to imagine who will grab the title. I also hope this SMM puts an end on the useless and pointless discussion between Asian and European playstyle. Such a thing - 'playstyle' - doesn't exist.
 
Comments (16)

 

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(3 months ago)  #1 4KFmatthe
matthe
TBH I like this analyze but there are some points where I miss something.... As you allready said, trilanes started to disappear while Jungling became a new "laning phase". WHY? You actually say low level heroes were raped too much, but it also means that there are 2 SOLO LANES. Two heroes that can rice, rice and rice and kill the whole enemy team. The only sacrifice were only 3 lower level heroes. With jungling they still had 2 solo lanes, 1 double lane and 1 jungler. So of course more high level heroes would pop out after early/mid.

Adding to that you talked about Venge/Lion/Maiden pick bans.... Those heroes are just "too strong". They are good for ealry games, their spells still do help mid game and even late game they can take out 1-2 heroes with their disables. I wonder if Icefrog will change there something. Same goes to Mirana, Brood, Spec etc. etc. . Anything might happen now changing the game in another direction with 6.55.

You also said, that there were those Lina/Leshrac etc. Picks. But back then DAGGAAAA was IMBAAAA making those heroes IMBAAAA.

And about this Asia/Europe playstyle thing. While watching Asia Replays I see heroes with nearly 200 cs at 30 mins in Asia, and 120 in Europe. In my opinion this shows a big difference in the "playstyles" which pretty much do exist.

lol
Last edited by matthe at 02.11.2009, 19:46

╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦
(3 months ago)  #4 shostakovich
 
I never meant to analyze all the aspects of it.

When I brought Lina/Leshrac bans into the discussion, was to compare their impact with CM/VS/Lion bans.

I still keep my position: there's no such thing as 'playstyle'. People tend to say that asians farm and europeans gank, and say that this is 'playstyle'. To gank or farm isn't a style you can or can't follow, but is a necessary moment of the game. 'Asian playstyle' and 'european playstyle'. At max we have team playstyles, meaning that some teams are used to play certain strategies and not play other strategies. Maybe my point is clearer if I say this way: 'gank' and 'farm' isn't enough to define what 'playstyle' is.

Heldarion is good.
(3 months ago)  #2 SoloZ
SoloZ
Very lengthy, parts of it look interesting and I admit I only skimmed through it. Maybe you should considering shortening it somewhat :p
(3 months ago)  #5 shostakovich
 
Take your time. Text will be here for a long time. :)
(3 months ago)  #3 Danny89
Danny89
i read it all as compared to the previous 1 which seems to be too technical for me=(
temp tri-lanes seems to work, bt if used permanently it'll be counter-productive i guess..
imho ES/VS/Lion/CM etc can roam & make any lane into trilanes anytime & still doesn need to worry about being under-lvl :)
(3 months ago)  #6 shostakovich
 
I agree with you.

But it's kinda shocking to look at past and compare how the game were being played. And to see that trilanes are back shows you how the game is envolving.

Do you mind explaining what you mean with 'too technical', please?
(3 months ago)  #8 Danny89
Danny89
there's alot on Chess there.. & very long too(including comments) @_@
& i stopped playing chess for years.. =P
DotA is what interest me both casually & competitively =D
(3 months ago)  #9 shostakovich
 
Hehe, sorry for that. But that article was meant to compare the both, so I had no choice.

But now the idea is to keep writing only about DotA, maybe with just one or another new comparison.
(3 months ago)  #11 Danny89
Danny89
eh y Sorry@_@
it's just that i m nt so good in chess..
so tis article better xD~
(3 months ago)  #15 shostakovich
 
Don't need to be sorry. And thanks, :D
(3 months ago)  #7 zero252
zero252
Agree with you about the 'playstyle' thing, i've seen tons of games with Kuro, Loda, Angel, Misery ... farming insanely >"< but the fanboys still flaming Asian "ricing style"
(3 months ago)  #10 shostakovich
 
Yeah. If you look in the past, for example, Mouz when KuroKy was there. Just look at the games where he plays QoP. You'll see HUGE farm.
(3 months ago)  #12 4KFmatthe
matthe
and MASS kills :>
╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦
(2 months ago)  #16 mA-Paradise
 
yeah, and at that moment it was all about the farm and the late game, so i don't see the point coz kuroky was doing things the way the people used to do it in those days.
Love&war, for now
(3 months ago)  #13 JoeZoo
 
Strictly speaking, if you want to make a comparison with chess, you should not say that Dota has no difference in playstyles. Chess started off in the Romantic period, where attack and mobility were the be all and end all. Then came the rise of positional play by figures like Steinitz and Tarrasch, and this became so dogmatic that it produced the Hypermodern reaction. Finally, we have the modern synthesis of mobilty, positional concerns and respect for material. However, while this is theoretically true of the whole, individuals can still vary in playstyle.

For example, in Russia today, many enthusiastic amateurs still play the Romantic King's Gambit because they love that style of play. Others are devoted hypermodernists, or starch classical positionalists. While the very best of the best tend to have a universal style, they still have playstyle tendencies. All things being equal, Kasparov would more likely go for the dynamic continuation while Karpov would favour the quieter positional approach.

How does this relate to Dota? Well, there ARE regional differences in playstyle. These differences are more pronounced at lower levels, but even among top teams you can see them. And while the best of the best need to be able to play against any style and adopt any strategy, there will be some positions or gametypes that the team will favour.

If Dota lasts long enough, it will probably happen like in chess where the top teams are 'universal' while amatuers more clearly lean towards one style or another. But we're not at that point yet.
(3 months ago)  #14 shostakovich
 
Well, I think this comment fits better on my first blog, hehe.

I do believe there is regional differences in the way teams play their games. But people tend to generalize this difference between two words: farm and gank. And they tend to think that these are self-excluding things. My point is that gank or farm isn't enough to define a team playstyle.

So, if you agree with me that gank and farm isn't enough to define what 'playstyle' is, then I totally agree with you.

Maybe in a future blog we can discuss what 'playstyle' truly is.

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Bruno 'shostakovich' Tomaz
From : br Brazil
Age : 2010 years old
 
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