MYM - Relativity of "How good a pla<x>yer is"

All Games

WC3

DotA

No comments today
No news in 24 hours

User contribution

I had this spark of philosophical insight again so I wrote this.

While there's a heated debate occasionally going on about who's the bes tplayer and who isn't, I feel it would be perfectly alright to thoroughly define concepts of "good", "better than xy" and "the best", since people as it seems, apply those terms all too generally.

First of all, I'd like to point out that marking anyone as "the best ever"*** would in more precise wording mean only "the one who showed much mor ethan anyone else on a frequent basis". In my book however, I would rather corss "the best ever" out, as the playstyles change often and map versions change VERY often. Of course, some players have dominated several versions, but still not each and any, so that would make them dominant on those particular maps only.

So what really defines a player as "better than xy"? Many factors, to say at the very least. One is obviously outplaying xy during a game. Oh well, the problems kick in there - "xy had a crap support from the team"- Alright I'll give you that - sometimes a player really tries hard* but it just doesnt' show anywhere as his team lacks the teamplay and all his efforts are in vain. "xy wasn't motiavted enough". I admit This is not a usual DotA excuse for somebody sucking in a game (it is usually related to a Wc3 Human player ToD), but this time I'm not buying it. Being able to motivate yourself enough to bring your game to another level and successfully own the opponent, is a part of a player's skill for sure. It is solely your own problem that you aren't motivated enough. The same as for motivation goes for focus** as well. There are surely exceptional cases, which are then again, extremely rare (Martians attacked, your kitty jumped on your keyboard while you were about to Laguna Blade this bastard Davion, your grandfather just had a heartstroke).
Obviously there's also a skill level difference between players which in itself doesn't need much explnation, but I'd wager that experience, closely related to skill, does.
So as far as the experience is considered, I believe that in the starting period of playing DotA (or any game), a player gathers game experience which also exponentially increases his skill for about 1-2 years and then he hits the limits (adapt that time according to how much time yuo must spend to master another game) and after that, it's all just about the number of repetitions and knowing the opponent's playstyle(s) - that's also where mind games kick in, which is just another topic that could give enough material to make another lengthy discussion (this theory is fore those who believe that skill can be increased/decreased).
Now, I believe I lost you with my experience + skill factor and that I also misphrased it, so let me rephrase it. Every player has a limit given that he does now know. experience from the games helps him discover how much he's really able to do. A player will always perform at a level that he's advanced to - everything else is just a matter of knowing the game for a while (game knowledge - yet another crucial part that may make a differenc between two players), knowing the opponents and mind games (this theory is for those who believe that every player has a given skill limit).
Surely every pro player considers last-hitting a second nature in a DotA game and I also think that it would be pretty hard for him to autoattack as he's too used to last-hitting and probably finds it easier - just to make an example of what playing DotA for a while does to someone.

Another factor which I look sceptically on (perhaps because I lack it a lot) is creativity. Sometimes creativity is just confused with doing random stupid shit (mind the funny lineups and retarded Mirana Arrows there). In this respect I refer to reactions that players make in a wink of an eye when a troublesome situation arises. Some of the best players can surprise you with doing something you would never expect and if you aren't prepared enough, you're one step behind again. And this brings us to another factor that disctincts two players - expecting anything**. A player not ready for surprised, even though they seem highly unlikely, is probably generally a step behind those that are.
I shouldn't forget timing and positioning, which are closely related to each other and are probably the factors that make the biggest difference when players of pretty much the same skill level meet and I'd wager they don't require an additional explanation. On the run I also remembered of adapting to a situation, closely related to creativity which offers better chances of successful adaption.

So rather than generally saying that XY is better than ZK, I'd rather stick to saying that XY outplayed ZK in that particular game no.3460 and I'd give you that, even though it might be that ZK owns XY on numerous other occasions.
And as far as comparing players or picking favourite ones is concerned, you'll have to allow me to pick my own ones. These, up to now, remain Slahser and FearDarkness (that they are both MYM/ex-MYM is merely coincidental).
In my eyes both of these guys always (or nearly always) gave and give a top-notch performance every game they played (I read Fear commentin on DotA-Allstars forums that he played with 200 ping some game where he owned like np, which just increases my respect for him as much as it can - maybe there are some limits to respect too). And since I'm talking about FearDarkness, I just love how robotically he farms every single game.
They (Fear&Slahser) apparently always have what I've been discussing all through this lengthy essay - trying hard, motivation, focus, skill, experience, are dominant in mind games, have game knowledge, timing, positioning, adaptability, creativity and they expect anything.
At this point I have to emphasize, I have my favourite players, but I don't consider them the best or anything, I prefer to vlaue players on a single-game basis.

And if we move away from that 1v1-ish picture of DotA, you can hardly even compare players among themselves as without support, pretty much any carry fails and without teamplay, any strategy falls apart. There is no definite and clear way to compare a job of two gankers (kills&assists are a good measure though), or even worse, to compare a job of a support to one of a carry and then claim carry is better than support because he farmed shitload of items and owend that poor support hero. In a 5v5 game that DotA is, players' roles are linked so closely to each other that one cannot go without the other and that gives the game its charm - individual yet team game where the best team (not the best player) wins in the end. Is it merely a coincidence that MYM is my favourite team? Maybe. But they have been showing for quite some time that DotA is a team game and epitomised the word "teamplayy" with their playstyle ever since I know about them.

Listing all these properties of a highly skilled DotA player, you can see it takes a lot ot become one and that not anyone can be one. And so I'd like to see that those stupid idiots who comment on mymym.com news like they posses all those skills and the game knowledge to just shut the fuck up when they've nothing smart and useful to say.

*You know, as far as trying hard is concerned, I hate to hear "trying your best" or "he didn't do his best" - he did his best that game, no matter what you say, and if he was just plain crap, that was his best for that very game. "Trying hard" just gives you an expressional freedom in this dimension.

**Focus and expecting anything and creativity are probably closely linked to each other. Keeping focus helps expect anything easily and also maybe opens a door to numerous solutions, where creativity takes turn.

***I strongly object to any idea of making public polls about the best player or anything such as that. Majority is retarded enough to vote for their favourite player regardless of how crap he performed in the given period of time.

Comments (16)

Page :

(6 months ago) #1 [SLO]Heldarion

Don't hold me for spelling errors, I was too lazy to correct them.

(6 months ago) #2 GenoZStriker

write an article about it, less words and more picture. :D

"without support, pretty much any carry fails and without teamplay, any strategy falls apart. There is no definite and clear way to compare a job of a support to one of a carry and then claim carry is better than support because he farmed shitload of items and owend that poor support hero."

^ This is where your article wins. Yet these players get way to much shit from the community imo and are always put aside when a team wins. No matter how godly Pusher support is people will always say Fear was the reason MYM won. O_O

Fear could be running from a 5 man gang with no boots, Pusher comes along body blocking all 5 of those players at the same time (which is not possible btw) and Fear gets all the credit because he escaped the 5 man gang. Not because of Pushers 5 man bodyblock but because Fear got away.

Last edited by GenoZStriker at 02.01.2009, 23:03

Demigod ESL 2v2 Opening Cup - http://www.esl.eu/eu/demigod/

(6 months ago) #3 [SLO]Heldarion

Oh well, I all this could hardly be said with less words than it was - DotA is quite complicated after all and the amount of words here is comparable :p Also, I don't think I'll include pictures in mah columns soon, it's just not my style, I want to attract with what I write, not make an advertisement with something that has no direction connection to the topic :]

(6 months ago) #4 deduxsers

OH .............................. EPIC ;)

(6 months ago) #5 hellstar

Why not the best team but the best player ? :D DOTA COLA !!!

(6 months ago) #6 4KFmatthe

Hmmmmm... There was once a question on the SK-Gaming Forum: "How to become Pro in DotA".

Quoting myself:

There are no solo pro players. In my opinion there are only pro "teams". In such a team players try to harmonize with the other team players. There is basically no way you can win 1v5, when everyone wards and tries to gank constantly, so YOU actually dont need to be pro, you only need to have good teamwork. I've seen replays from no name teams beating known teams like MYM, SK, fnatic, Ks, R3D, mouz in fun/clanwars (fun/clanwars because they played to train). So a good accomplished team has it easier to win than a not well communicating team.

Adding to that, besides the teamplay, DotA is also a strategy game. You cant expect that a team takes heroes like riki, balanar, axe, sniper, dr and wins everygame. This lineup is acually easy to counter with mass ganks, warding and stun heroes. Whenever you play vs a team, you need to have a good tac that will work until late game and you also need to know what you can expect from your enemies, what for items they might go for and many many other things.

My final conclusion:
You need Clan War experience but it also helps when you can farm good/gank/ward etc.

Adding to that, you are a good player when you know where YOU did mistakes in the game you played =) There is nothing better than to be self-critical.... Actually this is the only way to develop yourself. And I wonder if all pro players behave like this...

P.S.
It's just another topic that might come after yours... but lol^^ and about your blog... you read, read and think wow, I will never have these english skills and the end just shows that it's all about hatred :P THIS IS SO FUCKING GREAT!!!! MORE PLZ!

Last edited by matthe at 03.01.2009, 01:27

╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦

(6 months ago) #9 [SLO]Heldarion

that idea about stfu if you're worse than those players you watch just idly crossed my mind while I was pretty much finishing the column :)

(6 months ago) #7 zero252

dota = teamplay nice post!! XD

(6 months ago) #8 Red_Aces

tl;dr :P lol i'll read later when i got time hehe

(6 months ago) #10 chelom

i needed 2 logins to read it all agree with no2. changes arent bad change ure style less words pls XD jk well a lil. i agree with u there are a lot of things that determine whos the best player, and i think noone is better than noone some player are pretty good at doing some stuff, last hitting like u said some pros doesnt last hit good but that doesnt makes them bad or better. like profession i would never study medine for explame but some ppl do that doesnt make me a bad person or does it?

(6 months ago) #11 frozensoul30

HULK SQUASH TEXT HEAVY POSTS ! GRAAAAAAAAARRRR !!

Last edited by frozensoul30 at 04.01.2009, 21:49

Join the DarkSide. We have cookies

(6 months ago) #12 [SLO]Heldarion

No text, no wisdom.

(6 months ago) #13 ImSOLOmidSTFU

rly nice article keep up :) Jebe lud zbunjenog. Znachi ko je lud ne budi mu zbunjen :)

(6 months ago) #14 Inzek

i think dota has a big part of experience... what you say about creativity can be seen as experience, how people react to certain circumtances is often due to experience... last hit is overall experience, there no need of infinite apm, just experience. well warding, picking heroes, jungling is almost all about experience...

(5 months ago) #15 adinaadina

dude you have way too much spare time read a book

(5 months ago) #16 ImSOLOmidSTFU

ME>all Jebe lud zbunjenog. Znachi ko je lud ne budi mu zbunjen :)

Page :

In order to post comments you must be logged in. You will be forwarded automatically to the feature you were trying to access.

If you do not have an account yet, you can register to the MYM Community in less than one minute.
Registering won't only allow you to read the latest coverage on current events, but also give you the oportunity to take part in an uprising gaming community and meet new people, aswell as new friends.Register now and be a part of the MeetYourMakers community.

Other Contributions :

Title

Date

Author

Views


KingSurf DotA League Masters highlights video	03.05 12:02.am	-ky4ence-	0	195

ESL Portugal First Event and Lan Party	30.04 12:48.pm	DUKYS	0	406

test	30.04 10:29.am	ajajajak	0	41

Farewell	21.04 01:20.am	Heldarion	43	2217

Mousesports' drop is official	20.04 10:18.pm	GenoZStriker	6	1060

ex-MYM shutdown the team.	20.04 02:15.am	GenoZStriker	7	1233

Being stood up is shitty.	19.04 05:53.pm	thehalfrican	0	489

Ex-MYM Female becomes Zinic	17.04 06:38.pm	The1Crow	2	585

EG bring in ex-MYM WC3 team	17.04 02:06.am	GenoZStriker	4	622

EG rises from the ashes	13.04 09:57.pm	Korini	3	745

1st Clan pG^ Movie hopy u enjoy it )	08.04 11:07.am	-ky4ence-	8	172

SteelSeries Starcraft Chinese Invitational	08.04 05:23.am	Noname	1	357

08 04 2009	08.04 01:30.am	Moule	4	295

Djooks joins...	05.04 04:13.pm	matthe	27	1521

Does mouz stand a chance on KODE5 Sweden???	04.04 10:20.am	w067000	1	404

vhallee's columns	03.04 05:49.pm	vhallee	5	361

The third and last São Paulo qualify for KODE5-Brazil	23.03 03:00.pm	v0oid	3	383

KODE5 - Romania	21.03 11:58.pm	SirNeo	1	424

x6tence loses AMD sponsor	19.03 05:12.pm	v0oid	2	520

Mibr - Claims of manager	19.03 01:22.am	v0oid	0	450

Legend : Article Blog Column Guide Tutorial
You must be logged in to contribute.

Profile

	Tomaž 'Heldarion' Pollak
	From : Slovenia
	Age : 20 years old
	Team : Slovenia

Picture

User Contribution

The information posted on this space is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. The opinion of the author does not necessarily represent the opinion of MeetYourMakers.

Shameless self promotion

STFU and SHOP!

All you can shop, right in there. MYM shirts, NNScript goodies, and other stuff the ESNation network has to offer. If you can't find it there, we don't sell it! Are you ready to STFU?

Registered
Users:	1265974
Teams:	5703
Online
Guests:	4302
Members:	4