Esport News
DotA
14th February 2008, 16:50
KS cleared from maphack issue
A rolling stone went through the community yesterday when KS was officially banned for maphacking from the MYM tournament. However, the decision has been now revised.
What happened?
Suspicious elements have been reported in a game this Monday, and an investigation crew has been formed to look into the matter.
If a cheat has been reported, it must be investigated immediately. Especially if the team is still participating in the tournament and about to progress to the next or later stages.
There were four suspicious moments in the game so far;Were there any other reasons for suspicions?
The admin team was mostly suspicious of mikebz, since he was not playing with the other players from a LAN centre. He was the latest addition to KS roster, and 3 out of 4 suspicions were concerning his actions.
How did you investigate?
The crew has analyzed and watched the replay over and over again ( with the help of fast forwarding tools like www.gg-game.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=93992 ). The replay and the issues have been looked into so often that admins could even point out the suspicious seconds without looking at the replay.
Replays from followup games have been also analysed, but nothing suspicious was found.People from outside have been involved and asked for their opinion. That being IHCS admins, prior tournament admins, as well as professional and semi-professional DotA players.
What did you find out?
We have found out that there is a bug in WarCraft 3 replays, which keeps a unit selected even after it entered the fog - although the player who had it selected does not see it anymore.
The verdict was that there was no map-hack present from what we could see or prove.
We have gathered new intel from GG-Game Client and Dota-League Anti Cheat developers which led us to believe that we made the wrong decision. The evidence was at that stage overwhelming ( selection while shopping, arrow into exact forest position without prior knowledge, checking up on hero items after hero was out of range ) and the input of people that seemed to be experts in that matter. Already explained evidence, has been rephrased as new in new cases - a mistake which should have never happened.
Issues with the process, which will be changed in the future
Unnecessary public reactions
Racism - be it one or the other way. Several prides ago the administration was accused of hating Russian people, now it is about hating Asian people. With the next case we will most likely be racist towards a country of the next affected team. For once and for all : the team that is being judged against is seen as neutral, admins do not act upon nationality of teams, and have no agenda in doing so neither. Prime Defending lives from the versatility, of the inter nationality of participants - this was also a reason why Prime Nations was created. There is no point in racist remarks towards admins, and there is absolutely no point in racist accusations towards other people in the community!
Repeating or spamming of unproven facts or rumours to make the verdict invalid immediately. No, not all 5 KS members were playing from the LAN centre, and the red circle-issue also has nothing to do with a or b versions of WarCraft. Admins have been aware of most issues, and tested a lot of things before any verdict went out. This was not the first maphack investigation in the crew, and (unfortunately) won't be the last.
The slandering of KS in public comments and the opposing teams behavior were both unnecessary as it also transferred conversations into racist comments.
The verdict is changed into "Innocent until proven guilty" - we cannot say anymore with 100% certainty that the players in question have maphacked. We can only raise suspicions. It is in our duty to apologise to the team and the players.
The affected players will be officially cleared and unbanned from both tournaments and KS will be able to proceed in the Prime Defending tournament in the playoffs stage to the next round.
A public apology from the myMYM Prime Defending administration towards KS.
What happened?
Suspicious elements have been reported in a game this Monday, and an investigation crew has been formed to look into the matter.
Why the haste?
If a cheat has been reported, it must be investigated immediately. Especially if the team is still participating in the tournament and about to progress to the next or later stages.
What were the suspicious moments?
There were four suspicious moments in the game so far;
- Selection of a hero in fog after a team fight by a dead player. ( papaxiong )
- Selection of a spectre after he disappeared in fog for the time he was shopping. ( mikebz )
- Selection of a venomancer after he disappeared in fog. ( mikebz )
- A POTM arrow which hit and stunned spectre in woods without any sight, knowledge of direction or any other indicators of the spectre being there. ( mikebz )
Were there any other reasons for suspicions?
The admin team was mostly suspicious of mikebz, since he was not playing with the other players from a LAN centre. He was the latest addition to KS roster, and 3 out of 4 suspicions were concerning his actions.
How did you investigate?
The crew has analyzed and watched the replay over and over again ( with the help of fast forwarding tools like www.gg-game.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=93992 ). The replay and the issues have been looked into so often that admins could even point out the suspicious seconds without looking at the replay.
Replays from followup games have been also analysed, but nothing suspicious was found.People from outside have been involved and asked for their opinion. That being IHCS admins, prior tournament admins, as well as professional and semi-professional DotA players.
What did you find out?
We have found out that there is a bug in WarCraft 3 replays, which keeps a unit selected even after it entered the fog - although the player who had it selected does not see it anymore.
What was the initial verdict?
The verdict was that there was no map-hack present from what we could see or prove.
Why was the initial verdict changed to a ban?
We have gathered new intel from GG-Game Client and Dota-League Anti Cheat developers which led us to believe that we made the wrong decision. The evidence was at that stage overwhelming ( selection while shopping, arrow into exact forest position without prior knowledge, checking up on hero items after hero was out of range ) and the input of people that seemed to be experts in that matter. Already explained evidence, has been rephrased as new in new cases - a mistake which should have never happened.
Issues with the process, which will be changed in the future
- Too many people were involved who had nothing to do with it.
- Not enough people were involved who had greater knowledge of the game engine. Particularly the creator of the map and the crew around him were important factors that should have been included in the process beforehand.
- The haste. Although 1P kept quiet about this process, the growing number of people involved in the process, and the upcoming matches of the team forced us to make a fast decision.
- Communication. Not being able to get in touch with KS based on timezones and them not having time for a longer conversation was unfortunate, especially with the time restraints.
- Opinions of "experts", or what we believed would be experts have been taken for granted, while they were undecided or changed their own verdict afterwards.
- The venomancer scene has been presented as 100% proof, since there was no view for the other team around that hero at that time ( according to screenshots and video ), that is however wrong as the scourge creep set has been just killed and provided the 'fade out' effect and the selection of a hero within 1 seconds afterwards.
Unnecessary public reactions
Racism - be it one or the other way. Several prides ago the administration was accused of hating Russian people, now it is about hating Asian people. With the next case we will most likely be racist towards a country of the next affected team. For once and for all : the team that is being judged against is seen as neutral, admins do not act upon nationality of teams, and have no agenda in doing so neither. Prime Defending lives from the versatility, of the inter nationality of participants - this was also a reason why Prime Nations was created. There is no point in racist remarks towards admins, and there is absolutely no point in racist accusations towards other people in the community!
Repeating or spamming of unproven facts or rumours to make the verdict invalid immediately. No, not all 5 KS members were playing from the LAN centre, and the red circle-issue also has nothing to do with a or b versions of WarCraft. Admins have been aware of most issues, and tested a lot of things before any verdict went out. This was not the first maphack investigation in the crew, and (unfortunately) won't be the last.
The slandering of KS in public comments and the opposing teams behavior were both unnecessary as it also transferred conversations into racist comments.
What will happen now?
The verdict is changed into "Innocent until proven guilty" - we cannot say anymore with 100% certainty that the players in question have maphacked. We can only raise suspicions. It is in our duty to apologise to the team and the players.
The affected players will be officially cleared and unbanned from both tournaments and KS will be able to proceed in the Prime Defending tournament in the playoffs stage to the next round.
A public apology from the myMYM Prime Defending administration towards KS.
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Comments (308)
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(last year)
 #243 
sniperzreborn 
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I guess the upcoming battles will be led by KS teams and eventually go on the top ladders of MyM by now. Good luck!
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(last year)
#244 
yiran
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Quoting Archi-_-: great example with the soccer, cause in the last world cup, a ref sent some1 off after the 3rd yellow card (aka he screwed up) and he was dismissed from duty, so we should listen to u and do the same no? | |
(last year)
#246 
EtoM_JehovA
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I think that is a good news KS....New it is your turn to prove that there is no map-hacking 100%......gl
No matter what you have found..You'll allways miss something
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(last year)
#247
polyninja
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http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?
showtopic=204201&st=40 pls refer to post #52. It shows that MYM is maphacking against DOP (according to MYM definition of maphack). Now if u say that MYM did not maphack so does KS. NOW! ON YOUR KNEES!!! | |
(last year)
#248 
xuscarm
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It is pathetic and saddening to see MYM try to lick their wounds and try salvage their dignity in this manner.
Are they ignorant to the fact of how much more of an embarrassing legacy they are leaving behind by ending this case with an apology in this 'tone of voice'? No doubt many are reading the mass spam and thinking "hey stop blaming the Admins" but take the time to think about the injustice caused here. Not going into the topic of racism, it is clear that KS deserve more than this petty apology for the staggering amount of UNNECESSARY stress caused to them. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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(last year)
#249 
HaPpyMann
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If ks really wanted to maphack, they would have in the previous pride and against XcN also in ADC and would have won 1500$.
Why would they risk their own name against a clan who are definitely not better than them. Really stupid decision. Also i have seen better apologies before. How Can She SLAP !!!
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(last year)
#250
xuscarm
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"I just want to point out that Kingsurf is currently looking for another big sponsor so that they can participate in LAN tournaments like Dreamhack. The statement that mym admin made regarding both the accuse and apology really hurt their reputation a lot.
From the statement that mym put on to clear KS's charges also doesn't make things clear for KS, it was more on defending themselves and diverting the attention by blaming the community for making racism comment. They need to realize that it was the mym admins or some community elder that sparks off the flame war." | |
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Dude that apology was extremely sad........ no kidding. I guess MYM Admins still dont understand the situation they have put KS in. Figures, all they did was defend themselves and state a lot of random bs such as "Innocent until proven guilty." Yawn, I'm starting to wonder if these admins are truthful about being all fair/just as they claim.
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(last year)
#252
donutmkb
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today ks got 2 game. wish them good luck and do all the best. show them what malaysian can do. maphack thing was created by western people for western pla
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(last year)
#253 
8==D- - -blackshatan
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Why don't you guys just drop it? The matter has been resolved, apart from the dogshit apology. Trying to bring down and accuse VP and MYM of maphacking is just stupid and you're just dropping yourselves down to the level of the 1P sore losers trying to claim a DQ win.
Quoting polyninja: This guy is a moron. | |
(last year)
#254 
SpaceBadger
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worst apology ever, mym admins=stuckups and a bunch of hypocrites
Bye suckers. | |
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Pls ban Snake. An apology MUST be made from Snake and Sirro themselves. Not from MyM. They are the one who sparks the whole matter.
Snake and Sirro, if you got the guts to accuse KS, PLS have the guts to make an public apology to KS. This is your mistake and you expect your clanmates to sweep the mess up huh? Pulverise everybody in your path.
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(last year)
#256
NewbieFFect
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This appology seprates the ks supporters to "not-a-good-one" and "let-it-go".
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mymym started this big wooha and they close this quietly, whats is tis ?
its too late to apologise. =( | |
(last year)
#258 
sernchern
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This is obviously not an apology report. It is simply a secondary high school essay that started to ask WH question. WHY? What? HOW? lol.
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Pls mym, don't divert the blame stick against the community. We know you are trying to salvage some "useful" dignity. This inccident has a deep scar on KS. Why can't Snake and Sirro make a public apology?
And pls, I am not playing a racist card here. If there's no apology by this end of the week, good luck to you mym. You rock. Regards. Pulverise everybody in your path.
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i bet $150 this topic is going to get #500
and to KS,u can really make a monies with this. sue them. :)
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(last year)
#262
imported_ahkiam
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total 11 out of 1005 words did mentioned the means of apology...
and agree wif #258... really a joke... refer to the news, i only saw MYM stated how great they handled the situation. wtf, its like 1.09% of the news mentioned apology and 98.9% showing how expert they are.... Last edited by imported_ahkiam at 15.02.2008, 09:35
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(last year)
#263
imported_ahkiam
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sorry Double Post
Last edited by imported_ahkiam at 15.02.2008, 09:38
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(last year)
#264
amoszai
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Quoting genai: I seriously don't care whether you're as dumb as a mule or what, but whatever you've said here makes me laugh so hard. So you think that you're so high and mighty? So superior comparing to others who have supported Ks? For me, you just look like another pathetic poster. Yayaya, so much bullshit from the fanboys, but how about you? What you've posted here is utter crap and totally senseless. You just humiliated yourself with your own words, tough luck. Let me point out your stupidity one by one. 1. I don't really understand what the hell are you thinking here. Just because a team is being accused of MH-ing doesn't means that they are MH-ing. Any team that plays against VP and MYM could claim that the two teams are playing MH, but that'll be so wrong as there are no proofs to support it. The situation is same here, so I don't understand what the hell are yout trying to brag here. Do you think with your ass rather than your brain? I don't know. 2. So you think Zenith really wanted to continue playing the game? You're so dumb. Please actually look into the replay before talking shit. Zenith was requesting for the game to be saved so that it could be loaded and played on another host, but the game simply couldn't be saved. With all these disadvantages against them, they wanted to remake the game, but ViP rejected it, because they wanted to take full advantage of the issue. So you want the Zenith pla 3. Sheesh, I'm sure because that you're a dumb ass so you think that a flood of that size wouldn't even had affected the schedule by a bit. Actually by now, I'm stunned by your dumbness. You seems to comes from another world. The flood had delayed the original schedule of theirs by more than an hour, and that made things tough for them. But a dumbass like you couldn't calculate the time well, I guess. So for you playing 2 games under the time of 2 hours is so easily done. And SKOTH is no local game. Kudos to you for being dumb and retarded yet again for saying out things without knowing much about it. 4. So what dumbass? The pla I hate dumb peoples that start posting shit without knowing much like you too, as much as your hatred for "fanboys" and teams who talks shit. You're the one who started talking shit here. And it's obvious that from your reply you're simply dumb and racist, although you're trying to claim that you aren't and that you're superior. Sorry dude, you're just too dumb to be ignored. | |
(last year)
#266 
RESTINPEE
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#264 your argumentation sounds pretty coherent with dumb ass in every line. Where did you learn those skills >.< ?
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This post shows the process of how the verdict has been created, what influences and decisions were done at that time when only a handful of people knew and had to decide about banning a top team from the tournament.
Does it defend the admins? No, as it also shows what mistakes were done and that we are aware of those ourselves. Are we going to throw admins out for lynching to the public? No, since it was a team decision, we won't blame any individuals and we are going to handle admin related issues internally. Do we blame the fans for anything? No, except those that have acted with unacceptable behavior like bringing racism into play or attacking individuals. Are we sorry for what happened to KS? Yes, we are deeply sorry for what happened to them and KS has received a personal apology ( as already mentioned before ). We believe that rephrasing our public apology won't change the reaction much, as those people will simply jump on 'individual apologies' and then the 'lynching of people'. We are sorry for what has happened, end of story. Last edited by Army at 15.02.2008, 10:32
pobudeczka na bacon i jajeczka
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(last year)
#269 
BlackStar_
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So much drama >.<
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(last year)
#274 
apelsinlax
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To MYM|Army
I have been a "fan" of MYM for years, first of WC3 but later of both WC3 and Dota. I still am because of the MYM pla Maelk & co never believed that KS maphacked because of the vague proofs. Also if anyone employed logic the answer always was KS DID NOT MH. Maelk even said that if KS is proven innocent he would personally kick out Snake (stated in his long post at D-A forums). Obviously not only the fans seemed a little buffled by the admins decisions in all of this. You, MYM|Army said for example: "Do we blame the fans for anything? No, except those that have acted with unacceptable behavior like bringing racism into play or attacking individuals." Did you know that Metro, one of the people that was asked to review this matter is openly "disliking" asians. At the D-A forums he has in many posts for a long time indirectly said he do not like asians and is biased towards them. Not only that, he has also said DIRECTLY that he DO NOT LIKE asians. Regarding this particular incident he answered the following question "ahaha metro is going to have soooo much fun with this" (referring to that everyone knows Metro do not like asians) with this "I've been having fun with this since Snake asked me to review the replay, one or two days ago. Now, the fun's much better. GG Ks." Later regarding this issue he also said he DO NOT LIKE asians. Now. When the TEAM OF "EXPERTS" was brought in BY THE "UNBIASED" Snake, FRIEND OF 1P, Snake wanted Metro, yes the one openly saying he dislikes asians, to help them investigate if the asian team KS Maphacks. Do you, MYM|Army, actually don't understand that people will bring up and question if this was done in an unbiased way regarding the things I wrote here? This is just some of the reasons why people are mad, but even this is and should be enough to be mad about. Seriosuly. Think about? Admin Snake, FRIEND of 1P, together with the known and official ASIAN "disliker" is part of an "expert" team handling a MH issue with an ASIAN clan playing the Admins FRIENDS, 1P. Please reconsider some things MYM|Army. This was not professional in anyway from the start. You still have the chance to be fair and professional in the end. Be that! TMM - The Moon Mob
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(last year)
#276 
genai
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Quoting dasty: its not supporting KS, its stupid fanboys like you that i dont like ok, since you are so stupid, lets go one by one. 1. other teams were not accused of MH! if you actualy accused some other team and admins saw same bugs in there, you really think they wouldnt ban them? this is the FIRST case that happened and they THOUGHT its MH:P why are you so stupid? they even admit they didnt know about the bug! omg, its because they are asian!! 2. you are so dumb... and what they did about that? played and then wanted it to be reverted? why not just pause and contact some head admin? i really dont get how stupid can you be thinking that will work! since ive been gaming for 8 years now, you just dont accept and then expect it will be fixed later, cause most of the time... it wont, esp in tight schedule as in PriDe also, not to mention that they dont have to remake, according to rules, after 15 min mark? that just makes other team lamers... but again, your team is not enti 3. who cares if it affected the schedule? did you even read what i wrote? "they thought they can win in under 1 hour"... well, bad luck, you didnt and thats why you were late! if you didnt overestimated yourself, you could have reschedule atleast one game (and again we have same issue, they expect everyone to fix it for them AFTER shit happened)... you dont just let people wait in stupid hour for you and then come "it was flood and we didnt win fast enough, its not our fault you wasted your time, we are enti to sum it up, flood gave them less time, but they are the ones who decided to handle it the wrong way 4. so, its also racism against asians? and then you mention like 2-3 asian teams that do the same and are not banned? guess they are racists only if its against your team? maybe that was the only team they KNEW was doing it? or they hate china, but not hong kong? also, im clearly superior to you, even tho i dont even know what country you are from, but thats cause i dont care... i just dont like idiots and fanboys... i dont cheer for any team in both pride and nations cup and im sure im racist cause i dont buy your shit "they hate us cause we are asians when they dont bend the rules for us"... im sure hungary and norway(or whatever 2 countries were kicked cause of same shit one asian team did... being late) are saying the same, right??? why are you not trying to let them replay their match? racist! if anything, admins are clearly fair and treating everyone the same, its just your fanboys who SEE only when its against your team and then whine and make it "racist" and "anti-asian" bullshit your teams are NOT ENti and i asure you, im not racist, hating stupidity doesnt make you racist:P | |
(last year)
#277
smiles333
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this is really saddening.. does mym not care about their reputation anymore? i'm sure only a handful percentage of people bother to post here and it is obvious now what the whole world thinks of mym after this incident just judging from the small percentage of people posting here..
this case has definitely affected a lot of people and many lost their respect for mym including me.. i have no idea how many people but it's definitely more than u can imagine as this is an international tournament!! many people just read but don't post.. words spread like fire and soon the whole dota community will know about it.. there is still time to fix this.. u guys know what is the right thing to do.. isn't a proper apology worth the years of reputation it has built its foundation on? fairness? | |
(last year)
#278
WaDsTeCh
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zzzz
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(last year)
#279
WaDsTeCh
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This comment has been deactivated by the admin crew due to its content.
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Oh guys, please stop this bickering, for the sake of the community and Ks. I am sure Ks wouldn't want you to continue to bicker about this right?
I know some of you fans of Ks cannot hide your anger, but what done is done. Personally, as a Malaysian, I am very proud of Ks and I also admire MYM alot. Not just the admins, but the community and organization. But it just have to stop. Do you think by constantly bickering, you will gain anything? You say that Ks reputation is tarnish because of this accusation, have you guys ever thought about the possibility of you guys tarnishing Ks' reputation by talking shit in front of the whole world when everybody knows youre a Ks supporter? Sure, some attitude of the posters here and especially the attitude of the 1P team is saddening, but I think this case should already be behind us. When I first came across the incident of Ks maphacking, sure I was disappointed, but what disappoints me more now is the attitude of some Ks fanboys who are demanding shit like MYM owes them an explanation. If MYM owes somebody an explanation, it is Ks, not us, fanboys. Shame on you guys who act like you are trying to salvage Ks' pride but actually are also shaming them in the process. GL KS and MYM. | |
(last year)
#284 
hebe_tian
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lol.. i'm surprised you guys still arguing here..
i think they are (mym) the one, who will get his image ruined (at least at asian region) by didn't apologize properly.. so it's up to them.. even the hot-headed yamateh didn't show up here to chalenge SNAKE himself, so what the point stll arguing here.. and now we have stupid people like genai, who will make this thread become 500 post again.. ps: indonesian didn't scheduled the game 1 hour, but three hour.. there is no way the game didn't end by three hour.. but unfortunately, at the time they must fight gg-alpha (three hour before match againts Kz), it's occured that the connection is dead becoz of flood. and when the time they fixed it, it already nearly the match again kz, and they already know that they will be late, so they contact Kz captain.. but unfortunately Kz captain didn't replay, so what??? waited to Kz captain to reply?? or played with the one that already wait for 3 hour?? it's already clear what to take.. The only mistake indo made was they didn't know that they must contact admin at IRC.. and admin mistake was they DQ indonesia even without disscuss it first (or asked them for reason).. Kz team said their didn't asked for defwin.. but admin insist of give them def win.. it's really ridiculous..same with mineski case.. both team agreed to remake, but admin insist to DQ?? is not admin job to help both team have a fairly match? so when both team agree, why admin the one that insist? and for Kz case.. rules said "If a team is not available at the scheduled time you have to atleast wait 20 minutes before requesting a default win. To request a default win you have to speak with an admin who will look into the case. Admins will rule on fairplay, by trying to help getting in touch with the opponent and rather letting a match start late than giving a forfeit win" and now Kz didn't asked for def win, and admin didn't try to help them getting in touch with indonesia team, instead they insist to DQ them.. and make stupid comment Quoting sSerenity: really pro..admin himself out of rules.. but it's still godd compare to snake.. | |
(last year)
#285
hebe_tian
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Quoting melen: Quoting ZhaH: QFT just want to tell you guys to not blame Kz they didn;t asked for defwin.. | |
(last year)
#286
WaDsTeCh
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Genai stop ur stupid comments can ma??? Admins, pls dun ban my comment about genai can ma?? i not insult him, i just say the true. ty
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(last year)
#287 
illustrious_07
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thats why serrenity won the best admin for prime nation #1
for his racist comment "A SHAME FOR THIS COUNTRY" should i say GG BACK YOUR COUNTRY!! LOL... Quote that shit for a couple of times, that sounds really great dude | |
(last year)
#288
MaJYun
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#266
Each word of yours rhymes prefectly with idoicy. Where did you learn those skill from @Genai I love how you said you are superior than others and label eveyone who disagree with the MYM admin as a fanboy. I dont know who you are and what you do for living but I could not be bothered by a nobody like you. Please keep dreaming so that you will live in the hallucination of you being superior than anyone else in this world forever. And just to remind you. This is not an issue of fanboy but about MYM admin not handling the situation properly. Most of us just want to hear apology from those people who started this uproar in the first place(s1rro & snake). Nothing more nothing less and has nothing to do with racism. Angry fans just bring in the racism issue because most(if not all) of the mis-handled issue occured on the Asian teams. And lastly, Army. You keep emphasize that this decision was made by the all the admin and therefore nobody is to be blamed. Answer my question, if a group of people commit a crime, does that mean that they could get away from that purnishment as an indivudual? Last edited by MaJYun at 15.02.2008, 15:32
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(last year)
#289 
iryutmd
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just get sirro and snake to apologise and the negative comments will be reduced by 3/4 or more
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(last year)
#290 
Play_iT-Irvine
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I'm surprised with this news. Ks is a great team and i think that ks don't need of maphack
Diego Irvine
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(last year)
#291
SitTFriendlySheep
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To start: I am from Malaysia, used to play in Kingsurf the cybercafe till I moved overseas to study.
KS, Kingsurf Team plays in a cybercafe called Kingsurf, in Johor Bahru in Malaysia. It is the largest cybercafe in the state, hundreds of computers and regularly full. It even has a Kingsurf eatery(kopitiam) just round the corner. With that many pla There is something called pride, being one of the best teams in Malaysia, with the worlds' eyes(fans around the world) upon them. It is pride that carries them forward to play for their nation, as they know they are Malaysia's representatives in the Dota community. Would Malaysian fans allow them to get away with maphacking? Would Kingsurf maphack in front of them? 1p now comes up and talks about: 'oh we did not shout about it, screaming/whining etc. We left it to the MYM admins to sort it out' To that statement, I reply: Nice video on youtube. (which has now been taken down for those who are searching for it) There have been various comments that have been deleted for racism, various posters have been warned not to be racist across various forum boards, comments, else they be banned. If so, can someone explain to me: i) How can Metro, an Asian hater, who lets everyone know he is an Asian hater, be on the review team? Should he not be gotten rid off, with MYM having no further association with him anymore? Just like how racist comments, racist posters have their posts first deleted and then banned with each occasion that racism comes up in their statements? I read that personal apologies has been sent to the Kingsurf team. If they can write personal posts in the forums talking about the maphacking issue, why cant they apologise in the forums now? Why should they hide behind the authority, position of strength of MYM? Letting MYM take all the heat. To this bit, the review team might have recommended to ban, but MYM made the decision ultimately, so MYM should take responsiblity. This is all true. However, if so, my main query is: Why did those individuals post anything at all? They should have allowed MYM to speak and not comment as individuals at all. Since they commented as individuals, then they should apologise as individuals. To sum it all up: 1) In a big cybercafe, it is highly unlikely that Kingsurf Team maphacked, due to the number of live observers for each match. 2) 1P now says that they did not shout it out, whine or attempt to influence the decision MYM made. This is not true by the video they made, placed on youtube and told others to watch it. 3) How can a racist person be on the review team? In fact, how can he (metro) be even involved with the MYM community? If he is not removed from his position, it is evident that MYM does not take a hard enough line on racism. There is no room for racism in any sport. An example needs to be made. A hard one, not just a quiet 'let him go'. But to hang him out to dry. 4) People in positions of power should recognise that they represent their organisation and should at all times exemplify the organisation. Thus, when they speak of certain issues, before the organisation comes out with it, it damages the organisation and so, hurts the propects of Dota being a reputable e-sport. (similar point to point #3) Purpose of these points: 1) Hope to show KS is UNLIKELY to have maphacked. 2) Hope that in future, other teams who accuse their opponents of maphack TRULY lets MYM handle the accusation with no further ogling. 3) Hope that any racist people gets removed from the community. 4) Hope that admins/people in power always maintain a good image, thus, allowing Dota to be more professional, to grow over time. I just wanna say thank you to all those who have given so much to this game. This game has brought a lot of joy to many of us, and I must say that without the admins/programmers who make those clients/etc etc, this game cannot be as popular today as it is. The growth of this game has been phenomenal. However, to maintain this growth and to make it become a respectable e-sport, the good work must be upheld, professionalism must come into play. GO KINGSURF! MALAYSIA BOLEH! | |
(last year)
#292
Hereticeighteen
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Firstly, Ks does NOT need any MH, they are so skilled in the first place, and they would slaughter themselves that way before getting a sponsor? NO! At least, my logic leads me to think this way.
Secondly, I think that person that made his statement in the most impartial way has been Maelk, no doubt, even though I'm not aware that he made the decision, (my guess is that he didn't). Thirdly, I think it's not the way to apologise. "Innocent until proven guilty"? That doesn't sound friendly at all, it resembles a judge in a verdict... In all #291 posts here, I haven't seen any comments from S1rro or Snake. I don't know Snake, but I have faith in S1rro and I think that if he accused Ks of maphacking it was just out of pure conviction. This is what I've been able to understand... GL HF to all teams! And may this never happen ever again! =] Last edited by Hereticeighteen at 15.02.2008, 22:27
OMG it's shiny!
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(last year)
#293
Hereticeighteen
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Sorry for the double post.
Last edited by Hereticeighteen at 15.02.2008, 22:50
OMG it's shiny!
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(last year)
#294 
seethesky
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I like to be benevolent with this and so i dont want to criticise the people who "we all know they are the evil-members of the admin team bla bla etc" because i think that they dont deserve that, they pay a lot of effort advancing the PRO dota gaming in the state that is today. I agree, for what Ks has given in ways of "fame" to the community making it known in the depths of asia etc, that they got handled really bad but the fact is that if any other team was in their place people wouldnt arise so much fuss. I read plenty of comments within them the posts of 1p riper which from my experience is a really bad mannered kid and i am sure that all this JEPORTISE THE KS MHkeRS MISSION was a making of his and the other 1p members ego
(at least those who enjoyed of the KS situation) and i am talking about the youtube video they uploaded in hurry to make fun of their opponents.. That attitude just doesnt fit at all with all those comments we read so far by those guys in the forum and in that 1p boter interview --. You have to sympathise with all those pla | |
(last year)
#295
genai
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Quoting MaJYun: i said im superior to dasty, nothing else, even tho after some replies i can count that guy from ks in that group too:) and its not about agreeing, its about blindly seeing just what happens to "their" teams and whining cause "admins are racists" and forget that other teams were treated THE SAME!!! so its obviosly issue about fanboy, as i responded to that guy talking about anti-asia conspiracy or some other crap, and dont even care if they handled it right or not... if you didnt know about that delay bug, and you saw that... and 10 people confirmed it to you... some of them are maphack specialists or whatever... and what are you gonna do? say... hmm, im gonna wait and look for MORE people, maybe someone has theory that makes it in favor of accused, or you gonna say: i heard enough... they are banned im sure fanboys would search for someone with theory to set them free, but neutral people who didnt know about bug would all ban them it was handled very well, and they are cleared now, and bug is now known to everyone... so it wont happen again... and thats a good thing out of all this crap im sure all fanboys saying otherwise knew about bug and would never ban some other team ba and im perfectly fine with fanboys attacking me cause im not blinded and see it as it is, unlike them... who see conspiracy against them in everything | |
(last year)
#296
YaTzY
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Never heard of the replay bug before..
But is it proven that a replay can bug that many times? But still to accuse a pla But i looked at the replay, and i truely understand the MYM staff i would have done the same ''mistake''.. Still i belive that it should be taken seriously, it could really be true that a team of that rank did do that :o, so it is nice to see that some one in the gaming community notic these details gj. Still i would dissagree, the argument is that they cant cheat at a internet cafe? NOT TRUE, i work at a internet cafe and once in a while we find that people found ways to use theird parts programs for games like CS and WC3. But i would like to think that gamers like KS, got skills and not cheat.. I like the work btw<3, looking forward to see you in the PD tour... Good u gave them an appolygie fast MYM@. just a notic for all the ppl's that are writing lame comments in this thread it is a serious matter pls dont post offensive stuff, the Admins used tons of time on this thing, and the KS team have bin under a huge preasure and conffusion i thing because they have no real prove except for there words against these accusions. Moon best WC3 ppl ever, Slahser best dota ppl ever I use cheat IM ON EPO so my reations is like a windfurry OF DOOOOM |\| i ( o, Yatzy wish u are the best of luck Last edited by YaTzY at 16.02.2008, 02:13
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(last year)
#297 
Elegiac
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#274 i can't believe mym|army still hasn't responded. No , wait, i'm not surprized at all. Ignorance is bliss.
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(last year)
#298 
shlovic
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This comment has been deactivated by the admin crew due to its content.
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(last year)
#301
Mic1981
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When did the MYM Team start looking for proof that Ks was actually maphacking?
1P the greek team they played against discovered a few things and informed us, this lead to a big investigation, and analysing of the reply. All the proof so far was graphically, has anyone ran a parser and will we see more proof come via that way aswell? Yes ofcourse, we ran multiple tests, we only showed here what we were able to show in a news page. I assure u that the replay was analysed by anti cheat client programs, who confirmed our doubts. Some people have replied that the proof isn't very solid. For example Drayich and Maelk showed this in their comments on the MYM website. What do you think of that? With all due respect I think that dray and maelk are just dota pla How will this reflect on MYM.Nations seeing Ks is a team from Malaysia and Malaysia is in MYM.Nations? Well ofcourse they are not allowed to play for the Malaysian team, the team leader will have to find subs. Snake you interview was so great (this interview should represent the whole admin team decision also ?)... make me won't forget. Thank you very much for your fair judge. All these are fair, and I know you aren't the friends of 1p also. All you judgement is made ba MYM is so great. Thx Admins, You all are so fantastic!! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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(last year)
#302
S1rroSuxPlsResign
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fucking s1rro and snake both of u suck rascists and please resign , shame of mym
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(last year)
#304
RisingStars
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What does la mean? is it a singlish swear word?
anyways, imo, Was it really neccessary for MYM to go public with the information when they weren't 100% sure if KS was hacking? I mean, they didn't have to point names or anything, as it seems this info has really tainted KS. I would be very professional it MYM issued a clear apology, or atleast BOLDED at the end of this article with a statement that is directly apologizing to KS. | |
hmm i understand nothing...nevertheless MAPHACK must die also everyone who use it
ApMaTypa is OWNING!!!
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(last year)
#307
HKS
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diu nia seng kau lat cau cibek!!! mym has become hero to zero yiks!!!!!
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(last year)
#308
warlove3
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cuzco is swearing(using cantonese ba
anyway blame blizzard for the replay issues ^^ glhf for team KS | |
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Credits
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Army Author Last update : 14.02.2008 16:53 10 updates |
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This item was shown 28454 times. 249 people wrote a comment. 10 updates by 1 writers. Last update was last year. |
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