
WarCraft 3 has crept its way towards its peak in terms of popularity over the last few years, golden age began to shine and not even sky was the limit; players became stars, events offered higher and higher prize pools, the community became so large even the Chinese would say "w00t, that's many people", fans began to rise like a tidal wave, pushing motivation of teams such as MYM or SK to greater limits - or is it actually pushing likes of Grubby, Moon and Lyn to surpass themselves in each new tournament?
Are you really interested in the teams or the players? And what's even more important is: are sponsors interested to support a single superstar who has the potential to win a couple of highly remunerated tournaments or a team with many average players which seldom wins anything - and if they win as a team, will the prize money be that low, such that not much is left for their employer? Winning a team league is not about money, but prestige!
To get an answer to these questions, let's start with a quick expedition (something like Columbus did back in the old days, with only difference being we'll be cruising around on the waves of this article...and we probably won't find a new continent anywhere around):
So let's begin our journey with China, a country where that new drug called "gaming" is not blamed to have a negative influence on their youth generation.
A friend from Beijing just told me a few days ago: "WarCraft 3 is like so common here. I would venture a guess that in my office during lunch, at least 20 games of WarCraft 3 are going on!"
The general issue about RTS games
Well, that was a short trip to China, now let's move outside Asia and take a look at Europe where we have two major problems at the moment: Firstly, the RTS community lacks, compared to the FPS community, a strong and large fan base. Games like Counter-Strike always have much more fans - a quick note, fans are people that shed tears when their idols lose and throw bras on the stage when they win. While it might be flattering for the young Casanovas out there to receive women's underwear, it isn't the key reason as to why fans are good. Bottom and the most fruitful line is that more and more people are interested in buying the gear and mousepads their idols used to enhance their performance. Would companies like SteelSeries or Razer be able to become what they are and invest those huge amounts of money in eSports without FPS games? I wouldn't be so sure about that!
Before we continue - back to the bras thing, there is no filmed evidence of fans throwing such items so that was just a bold assumption, female rights protection groups if you wish to shoot me for that I can be your hostage and you'll be my terrorist but please don't take it to your hearts. Back to the topic, I wouldn't say that RTS is not an interesting genre for the sponsors, but if you are able to attract a possible audience of let's just say, 100 000 people on Steam that play Counter-Strike 1.6 at the same time and 'only' 40 000 people that play WarCraft 3 at the same time on Battle.net, the teams of which game would you choose to sponsor?
The situation in WarCraft 3
Some people like to play with guns, others prefer playing with heroes, so let's turn our minds back to WarCraft 3: Yes, we are in the year 2008 and things have changed in WarCraft 3. Where are all the European events? Where are all the new young talents? Where are the crowded Battle.net and Garena rooms? Where are all the fans that buy merchandise? Not that everything has gone bad, but as a matter of fact, less people play the game if you compare the Battle.net stats from this year and the last year. Fewer pages do WarCraft 3 coverage, fewer players get interviewed and less WarCraft 3 related news are written. Players like Rotterdam, and even ToD lately, started to do shoutcasts since they noticed this is a new way, which also happens to generate a healthy income, where they can make use of their outstanding knowledge of the game.
No NGL, no WC3L, no teams
More or less proven rumors confirmed that the NGL still owes a couple of teams thousands of Euros
and can you remember for how long have we already waited to cheer at the NGL One Finals? Most likely we will never do that again! The NGL issue brings us to the other big team league: WC3L. For years this event was carried by the teams that participated in it, the teams that covered travel expenses for their protagonists to fly around the world and fight under their banners, or tags more precisely.
I hope you won't mind me slipping in here just one example: If SK or MYM had to fly their Koreans to Germany for the WC3L finals, the money spent for each flight would be about 700 Euro. 5 players x 700 would make it 3500 Euro. Add the salaries of the players, add the percentage of the prize money that players keep to themselves (around 80%) and then take a look at the actual prize money that is,
![]() |
| Rotterdam the shoutcaster |
even for a first place, far less than 10,000 Euro. So, is there any sense for a team to play and attend such events if they lose more money than they make out of it? After all, eSports is business and it is all about the money!
One example wasn't good enough for you? Well it wasn't good enough for my fingers, either so I'll type you another one: Look at srs, the Rotterdam's team , just a few days ago they have announced their departure from all of the team events. It is quite likely a matter of time until they will release the whole team and keep only one or two key players.
Shouldn't we learn from Asian events, especially those from Korea that have been preaching us for years that events which feature individuals are the future, that those are the ones that attract viewers and sponsors? Wouldn't it make more sense for all those big teams to disband their whole team and stick with one or two players? Let them win all those "star player vs star player" events, and organizations like SK, MYM, mouz, mTw and Co. would be much happier.

The teams make the teamleagues
Team, or no team?
"I carry passion in what I do, and I can't stand to lose more fans. I have higher expectations, and with them comes a great responsibility towards winning,"
the biggest eSports idol ever, Boxer said this once. Not sure but he could probably say Spiderman's uncle (it was his uncle, right?) ripped off his line when he said "With great power comes a great responsibility." When you hear such words from the star players you realise they have this hard motivation, they are driven by their fans to sometimes go even beyond necessary to accomplish victories - though it is hard to have a team with five players that are all highly motivated in the same way. Furthermore, you won't ever find a team that consists of stars. You cannot make money with players as a brand if they all lack of that superstar status.
And yes, as what Korea has taught us, we need stars - they are the future of eSports! Tournaments which feature individuals attract more interest, especially in Asia, as they are the future of WarCraft 3; team leagues are dead. The question for organizations to have a team with two or more players will no longer need to be answered, it will soon be a fact that there is no reason to have large teams anymore.
Final question: Isn't it in overall a positive development that team competitions get less and less promoted? One vs one tournaments have all the excitement, they have all the tension, the action and yes, they have the stars (those shiny yellow dots you see in the sky at night, but during daylight they fall down and turn into progamers - there, another mistery solved - where do the stars go when dark is gone)!
Page :
(7 months ago)
#1
GenoZStriker |
|---|
I am not going to lie and do not mean to offend anyone, but the whole invite-only tournament and the same pla
Some pla As for team leagues. I think that only the first and second team should have a spot in the leagues and the rest have to qualify again because then you only limit the amount of spots for 4 teams out of all the teams who try to qualify. Who says that Team Suxx can't eliminate nGize, MYM or GG from a qualification. I do not think anyone has the right to assume that until it actually happens. Last edited by GenoZStriker at 18.11.2008, 19:23
Demigod ESL 2v2 Opening Cup - http://www.esl.eu/eu/demigod/
| |||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
|
yes, Warcraft 3 is getting old, not? :-)
| |
DOTA>WC3
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#5
Dendra |
|---|
wc3 progaming scene is kinda on level of amateur sc scene, with higher prizes though
for example sc progaming scene is ba saying cs is more interesting to the sponsors over rts ti with sc2 being released it should offer a noob friendly game, easy to learn and get good in fast for the majority of world's population so just like in wc3 we could see more balance there between koreans and non-koreans, that is the key problem of sc for example, two communities separated for eternity due to a huge gap in skill. future of wc3 basically lies in sc2, once it gets balanced enough it will be the end of wc3, reasons are numerous and they lie in game mechanics, etc. WC3 is already losing pla grubby&moon and co. are fun and everything but wc3 needs fresh blood, rotation at the top, etc., this way things are getting boring (in sc for example every year has several rotations, not many pla If force won't work, use greater force.
| |
DotA is the answer to a lot of the questions and points made in the article.
Sadly, most tournaments have a hard time spotting the possibilities of the game. no re
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#8
imperator-xy
|
|---|
|
I guess most of the professional WC3 pla
My opinion. | |||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
The problem with dota in entirety is the length. An average DOTA game takes between 40 and 60 minutes, an average Starcraft or Warcraft 3 game takes between 10 and 20 minutes. An epic WC3 game lasts no more than 35-40 minutes and some epic DOTA matches have taken between 2 and 3 hours.
The games can take too long for tournament play, and many people lose interest watching games that long. Even when I was playing DOTA at a top level, it was hard to make myself watch replays to plan strategies against other teams because it was just so boring to watch. I was sitting in class the other day, and I was watching the VoDs of the Grubby v Moon final of WCG, and even the people around me that had never played WC3 were fascinated by it. It's definitely an interesting game to non-pla The difference between that and DOTA is that only DOTA pla | |
I admit, DotA's length has been troublesome ever since it's birth.
But the new version seems to have embraced a solution to this. I admit, I haven't done my homework and actually watched any of the official matches that has been played in the new version nor have I actually played any myself either. I have, however, played tonnes of practice wars in it, and in 9 out of 10 games, the game goes no further than the about the 30-minute mark. Some faster, some a tad longer. As for the past problems with the picking time, that has also been addressed and to answer the last quote of Mirhi: The difference between that and DOTA is that only DOTA pla I am sorry, but this goes for any game. For years I have found both WoW and regular WC3 to be profoundly boring to spectate. One of them, WoW in particular, I don't have the slightest clue of what is going on since I have never played the game, but in WC3 I actually do. However, a few weeks back I watched the stream of the ESL and guess what... I found WOW to be somewhat amusing. Not because of the game itself, but because of what every sport and every game needs in order to be entertaining: The casters. If DotA had competent casters for the matches that are actually important and should prove interesting for the general public, then I promise you the game would be at least as funny to watch as WC3 and WoW, and possibly even as amazing an experience as Counter-Strike. The huge 5v5 clashes in DotA simply makes up for the time that goes inbetween them. And even then, there is still ganking, lanewars and so forth. I am, of course, very biased on the matter. no re
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
wc3/dota > fps.
(in my opinion!) | |
(7 months ago)
#21
stef- |
|---|
even cs has been come to a point where its just boring as hell to watch
and play. god bless 1.5 times. i watch a lot wc3 / dota replays .. the only ones that are interesting are either finals or matches where the pla i prefer to watch an 30 min wc3 game than a 9 min one because they dont happen often. I never played ANY serious wc3 match expect the strongly recommended singlepla Last edited by stef- at 18.11.2008, 22:22
pro
| |
(7 months ago)
#22
Morgoth |
|---|
Would you please stop glorifying the Korean esport scene without providing unbiased sources/(scientific) articles and hard evidence (facts & figures) to back it up?
And the "Korean(=asian) idolization" of individuals is not something you can easily achieve in Europe. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#23
Udaibe
|
|---|
|
WC3 for ever. Every kid should play it in school as a subject.^^
| |
(7 months ago)
#26
GenoZStriker |
|---|
The WC3 scene just has to improve it's 1v1 tournaments or add more. Make better qualify and not invite to many or the same pla
Demigod ESL 2v2 Opening Cup - http://www.esl.eu/eu/demigod/
| |
(7 months ago)
#27
ohjeohje |
|---|
Quoting Maelk: I think many have said this past versions, still problem is there (5-7 times after every patch lately) But what could make DOTA shorter (competitive game)? Reduce towers HP and damage. Make item prizes cheaper, more creeps coming per lane, faster leveling, etc. Its Mr. Replay manager to you ! *_* -Ohjeohje
| |
(7 months ago)
#35
Maeka |
|---|
no comment :D
| |
(7 months ago)
#37
Mantraa
|
|---|
|
TERRORISTS WIN: Hahaha
| |
(7 months ago)
#38
Aoyos |
|---|
I always found wc3 totally boring to play but amusing to watch,DotA is completely the opposite,funny )
An nescis mi filli?Quantilla sapientia mundus regatur...
| |||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#39
GenoZStriker |
|---|
World of Warcraft is the future of Competitive gaming. :/ even WCG has considered it a possibility for next year.
Demigod ESL 2v2 Opening Cup - http://www.esl.eu/eu/demigod/
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#43
imported_ixion |
|---|
Even if dota would have 20 minute games instead of 60 min or w/e, it would still be freakin boring to watch.
| |
(7 months ago)
#46
abuseyoumerc
|
|---|
Quoting Dendra: I couldn't agree less actually. Do you really believe that SC has endless strategies? I've actually managed to watch and understand a bit of SC, but all those 'pro' matches had quite the same build as a 'pro' match in wc3. In other words, the reason why there has not been a top 3 for more then 2 consecutive years is because of mixture of innovative pla But isn't this the same thing we see in warcraft III pro matches? Ofcourse there are lots of games who are roughly the same when played by pro's, the same strategies, build orders, etc. But sometimes there is a pla What use is a cooky cutter strategy against an opponent who knows your own playst And that is the exact reason why some of the pro pla As a last comment, I doubt you followed the wc3 scene at all, because in the last few years we've seen quite some new faces going 'pro'. I did not know about some guy named 'who' couple of years ago, or Lyn. And other pla | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
World Of Warcraft
THE BEST GAME EVER CREATED GeeGee I <3 Calvin Harris!!! One More Tune!!!
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#48
FaetoN |
|---|
WarCraft III the Best ^_^
| |
(7 months ago)
#51
Lun-
|
|---|
|
warcraft 3's future is in china now. True that solo tournaments attracted more popularity. The only running team tournament that is wc3l? ngl seems dead right now. :/
| |
(7 months ago)
#52
abuseyoumerc
|
|---|
|
I will try to respond when im back from work dendra, but you say a lot of truth in this post. ill try to highlight them out, if not it will be tommorow in the midday :)
| |||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#53
toCuws
|
|---|
|
The article was very interesting and had a lot of valid points - enough to make most wc3l fans worry.
But seriously... this community is a joke. The comment sections and forum threads always suck 'cus it turns into that annoying-as-hell Dendra guy talking about SC and some random chit chat about dota. Dendra is on a never-ending, no life crusade against all that is not sc. It's f'ing pathetic, and I wouldn't be surprised if mymym was loosing traffic because of him. That aside, I have to say I don't visit mymym that often, but when I do I'm always surprised by the quality of crow's work. Last edited by toCuws at 19.11.2008, 14:00
| |
(7 months ago)
#54
DaiZel |
|---|
I think there is no problem if the management can handle the budget well. If you want to compete in the top you need to be aware that it will be a lot of money efforts.
| |
(7 months ago)
#56
Loroo |
|---|
i m with Maelk,azen and dendra... Dota Imba.
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#62
Antidoto
|
|---|
|
Great article, great points and many valid comments, but personally I think that wc3 survival relies on the Chinese community, China can become for wc3 what Korea is for sc, so it all depends on what China can/will do for the game/gamers/teams, and knowing them, how crazy they are for the game, I'm pretty SURE they won't just let the game die, maybe everyone will have to move to China, who knows what the future for wc3 holds, what I know "wc3 has been dead for 3 years alrdy" it's what a lot of people has been proclaiming, and oh, ALL of them had valid points, on the contrary though, wc3 seems to have reached its peak, the game right now is by far better than in the past, conclusion? WHO KNOWS!
| |
(7 months ago)
#66
abuseyoumerc
|
|---|
Quoting Dendra: Same for me, with the exception that im more biased for wc3 :) Quoting Dendra: I agree, but the normal wc3 community WILL die in a short time, and I think the sc community will also (im not talking about the progamers atm). The reason why? SC2 2 possible outcomes: 1. SC2 Rocks and pull some progamers from SC and wc3 to the game, thus meaning both games will die slowly outcome 2. SC2 sux and pla Quoting Dendra: True, but how do you think these games where created in the first place? companies like EA and Blizzard NEED to innovate, their income does not come from a handfull of progamers, but from a large ba On the other hand, I dont know why you say there is not competition amongst the companies who create games. I mean, if they dont have competition they will make crappy games and lose costumers to the other one making crappy games, and they will lose costumers. If that sounds stupid, thats because it is. Bottom line, if I where to buy a sucky game from gaming company X, then switch to buy a sucky game from gaming company Y. hell I would buy a good game from gaming company QQ. (Plx understand ^^ I can explain this much easier but I like this wierd explenation) :P Quoting Dendra: Again, I doubt this statement, sure a game is good, but when it dies, it dies. If there where to be a far superior game to wc3 I will switch to that, if the majority of pla But sure it would be fun to see my son/daughter play wc3 going crazy on some guy named 'grubby2020' or 'moonrevisited' XD Quoting Dendra: I couldn't agree more on the guitar hero thing, I was actually SCHOCKED to see that game on the list :) Quoting Dendra: Yup Quoting Dendra: Altough I agree on the physical part, I really think these pro gamers are mentally very strong. They have to handly presure from thousands of fans, they have to play on TV for thousands of fans, they have to put up good results or they get 'fired' from their teams. I could go on about pro gamers but the bottom line is not as simple as it looks, otherwise, wouldn't we all be progamers? Quoting Dendra: Agree :) | |||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
sigh...why wont people evolve with their gaming tastes?
ok i started with sc and i loved it moved onto wc3 when i got bored with the same shit and gfx liked wc3 alot and kinda became average good at it then stopped playing cuz i got bored again... went on garena to play dota and had a lot of fun and wasted countless hours but it was fun... then i bought wow battlechest on an impulsive shopping trip and played for 2 hours and cant stop playing... dont think i'll try sc2 or d3...wotlk is doing fine for me...im a FireBALLING M A G E nukkah oh of course i have med practice tests and my love of travelling to attend to... people move on -.- I <3 Calvin Harris!!! One More Tune!!!
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#72
__LoG
|
|---|
|
i dont think so...
Dota > WC3...wtf??? | |||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#79
Hereticeighteen |
|---|
I like to think that WC3 is highly similar to Chess! It's extremely difficult to master, with lots of variables and not meant for everybody! I can't think how people say that DotA > WC3 or the other way around, both are excellent games (I know it's biased, I play them both, but anyway...), the thing is that the evolution of DotA as a game is much faster than WC3's at the moment... DotA is still growing, while WC3 isn't. DotA is nearly limitless, while WC3 is. Almost all WC3's possible strategies (again, like Chess) have been discovered and thought of, when in DotA innovation is possible and it's the key.
OMG it's shiny!
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#80
Hereticeighteen |
|---|
And shoutcast DotA! Make more tourneys! Money will be at hand, then, ^^.
OMG it's shiny!
| |
(7 months ago)
#95
GenoZStriker |
|---|
In a way SC2 might mean the end of WC3 but then again it would still be merging 2 communities with each other which might be great.
Demigod ESL 2v2 Opening Cup - http://www.esl.eu/eu/demigod/
| |
(7 months ago)
#96
Publiplz
|
|---|
|
I insist, this column is about war3 teams... DotA isn't a solution. It's a different game.
| |||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#97
Valykire
|
|---|
|
i play dota 4 fun sometimes like a game or two but only 2 get a rest from wc3.I dont know about sc and wc3 but in my opinion dota is going 2 be in the group of games like RA3,GH3,VF5 ... (just not exciting like wc3 , sc and cs1.6).
| |||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
(7 months ago)
#104
-MeOw- |
|---|
End of w3 teams?! o.o Oh no's!
*~oBz HoSt~*
| |
(7 months ago)
#112
aTchOKiPik |
|---|
dota = too long, no wc3 experience to be good at, few skills involved ( n/c)
wow= bunch of fat nerdz who have never even played to wc3, average people in there may be 12. war3= dying community becuz no more interests in the game, a generation which gets bored and focus on their life, studies, instead. (please don't reply with endless comments...useless) sc2 = same story, big amount of pla stop speaking start fighting
| |
(7 months ago)
#113
chelom
|
|---|
|
i think warcraft its better than dota slightly cause is more complex, but the thing that dota has is changes, we wont be able to see a change in warcraft in a lot of time or maybe never cause blizzard will just focus on sc2, but dota its diferent u see a new dota map every month or so so that keeps u up. so dota will last longer but warcraft its better.
| |
It is sad to see these teams dispersing. It is like everything in life, hit the high point then start the slow decline until its dead. WC3 and all the teams were great. Just gotta hope there is something to be done to safe WC3.
| |
|
|
![]() |
The1Crow Author Last update : 18.11.2008 18:58 4 updates |
![]() |
Elven_Star Last update : 18.11.2008 20:27 1 updates |
![]() |
--Nemesis-- Last update : 18.11.2008 19:39 1 updates |
![]() |
This item was shown 6984 times. 39 people wrote a comment. 6 updates by 3 writers. Last update was 7 months ago. |
Two-time WCG winner, considered as one of the best Warcraft 3 players in history, an idol and role model for thousands of fans, featured in a the eSports movie beyond the game and despite to that all,... 