MYM - The Good, the Bad and the Flaming

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21st November 2008, 14:00

The Good, the Bad and the Flaming

Definition of flaming:

"Flaming is generally the hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of a discussion board, Internet Relay Chat (IRC) or even through e-mail. An Internet user typically generates a flame response to other posts or users posting on a site, and such a response is usually not constructive, does not clarify a discussion, and does not persuade others. Sometimes, flamers attempt to assert their authority or establish a position of superiority over other users. Other times, a flamer is simply an individual who believes he or she carries the only valid opinion. This leads him or her to personally attack those who disagree. In some cases, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they can be called "trolls." Most often however, flames are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject."

(source - wikipedia)

Why do people flame? What makes those flamers tick, what pushes them to the edge of harassment and even discrimination? The godfather of psychoanalysis, Austria Sigmund 'DrFreudy' Freud would probably have blamed it all on the flamer's childhood, the flamer's environment and friends. That the flamer was neglected by the parents, not getting enough attention, seeing the parents maybe even flaming each other. Or maybe it all came from the friends, the friends having taken flaming as a cool thing, a normal thing between friends, to insult each other instead of just talking to each other like normal people.

In the past few weeks, we have seen just a fraction of the problems caused by flaming. We saw that the 3rd F4F tournament where Croatia dmZ|Lacoste_ got banned after he flamed in a game vs. Germany aX-eSport. This was not the only incident in the 3rd F4F, because in the match between Denmark Met and Malaysia Ks, Singapore Ks-hyhy accordingly stated that 'he did not understand how Met made it so far in the tournament', and that statement led to a lot of flaming from both sides throughout the game. But it is of course not only the players who are flaming, we also see tournament and league administrators flaming the users, their co-admins and so on.

Since we cannot interview Freud on this rising flaming problem we talked with some of the familiar faces on the DotA scene, players as well as tournament & league organizers. Those people who have experienced flaming themselves, either on a daily basis or at least at some point in their DotA career.

We caught up with:

Next Page : GG|NiK-

Comments (35)

Page :

(7 months ago) #1 CreepValentine

1st to comment.=)

(7 months ago) #2 [SLO]Heldarion

"parents flaming each other" = gg

(7 months ago) #6 --Nemesis--

+1 :DD I'm forever wishing I was blowing bubbles like Phil :<

(7 months ago) #3 aWrnSS

"The friends having taken flaming as a cool thing" Key words.

(7 months ago) #4 4KFKurail

well we all know that.. right? Life is a bitch,so fuck her xD//Gaming Royalty//.

(7 months ago) #5 JustAVGn00b

this lacoste is by far most retarded person i ever saw

(7 months ago) #7 --Nemesis--

Most memorable flame for me: "Wow your team is scrub and full of terribads" and this was after the flamer's team got smashed in 4 straight maps in Grand Finals vs a team from lower bracket... I'm forever wishing I was blowing bubbles like Phil :<

(7 months ago) #8 ngEAr

Met gj :))))))))

(7 months ago) #9 Say_Maki_Pls

Flaming is not that bad, as long as both parties are enjoying it. =/

(7 months ago) #10 ffestChammer

flaming is part of dota every1 know -Chammer

(7 months ago) #11 vhallee

aren't you surprised why flaming is described as a general characteristic of dota gamers? out of all gaming realms, the dota realm seems to be the most disgusting one to me. i won't start ranting about how dota is a map and not a game (and especially not e-sports, that's just plain silly) but the community itself is just... saddening. the fact that there are articles like this one proves my point.

I'll be nicer when you're smarter.

(7 months ago) #12 DKMaelk

How would you by any means know how much flaming there is in other communities other than that of Starcraft? Right, you're clueless.

The reason why DotA might generally be conceived as a game that includes more flaming on a public level than others might have something to do with the fact that you rely more on your teammates than in any other game. As for the competitive part of the DotA community there is possibly less flaming than i.e. the WC3-community. By no means is there more. I don't know anything about the SC community cause the game is old, boring and lackluster thus I have no interest in it. As for CS, I don't know enough of it to express an opinion...

But that doesn't seem to hold you back although I wish it would.

no re

(7 months ago) #13 vhallee

i'm level 29 on ggclient. need me to go on?

I'll be nicer when you're smarter.

(7 months ago) #14 4KFmatthe

Just mass idle :D

╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦

(7 months ago) #15 [SLO]Heldarion

owned xD

(7 months ago) #16 rivettca

You didn't even address his points. Fail. Owned by the Maelk (as usual).

(7 months ago) #17 vhallee

you, sir, are pathetic. i thought people like you would understand what i meant by that statement, yet you just proved my point. i will give a full explanation of what i meant (including a drawing if i have time) because you simply make kitty sad :/

p.s: idling to get to almost lvl 30 would mean keeping ggc opened for a few decades afaik, so no, i don't idle.

I'll be nicer when you're smarter.

(5 months ago) #34 rivettca

NOOBZOR

(7 months ago) #18 DKMaelk

I gave you a reason as to why the public DotA-players might be flaming more than other gamers. In public Counter-Strike, also known as Free For All (FFA), you don't rely nearly as much on your teammates as you do in DotA nor does dying once or twice set you at such a disadvantage as it does in DotA thus people gets more agitated if their teammates are to blame.

If there is more flame, then its between allies, not enemies. I dare say there is equal or more flaming amongst enemies in other games than in DotA.

I can play tonnes of DotA pubs without ever hearing enemies flame eachother, but often allies flame eachother in all chat, yes, whereas if I play an equal amount of public WC3 I will get flamed every second game and in Counter-Strike I'll be called a 'lucky noob' or 'wallhacker' once every 10 kills. In an aspect of time, that is vastly more flaming in both WC3 and CS amongst enemies than in DotA.

Of course, this is strictly my own experiences as a players of all 3 games, and yes, if you are bad at DotA you can be sure that your allies will let you know and flame you for being so. Which might explain your hatred of the game and its so horrible manners compared to others.

Lastly, I think its ridiculous to even discuss the behavior of public gamers as there are too many games to make an accurate measurement of the manners. And add to that, that both the place you play (whether its Battle.net, Garena or some open IRC community) and the country you're from plays a bigger role than what game you're actually playing. So I'd rather you ask yourself this, vhallee: "Where do I play and where am I from?". Pretty sure that would give you a better answer than anything else.

As for the competitive part of all the different games, DotA is on par with Counter-Strike in terms of manners, both far ahead of WC3.

no re

(7 months ago) #19 vhallee

i will reply on both your posts here because now i seem to have some time.

How would you by any means know how much flaming there is in other communities other than that of Starcraft? Right, you're clueless.

just for that i shouldn't bother replying to your post. your ignorance is just disgusting. i have been in gaming journalism for almost 3 years, i have written for gaming (not only SC!) sites and magazines both in romania and international magazines/sites, i have been a shoutcaster for several games and i have a freaking bachelor's degree on cross-cultural communication in online journalism', half of which is about esports. don't even DARE to judge my gaming knowledge.

The reason why DotA might generally be conceived as a game that includes more flaming on a public level than others might have something to do with the fact that you rely more on your teammates than in any other game.

excuse me? dota is full of flamers because of teamplay? omg my head just exploded.

I don't know anything about the SC community cause the game is old, boring and lackluster thus I have no interest in it

i decided to reply to you simply because i saw that you usually structure your statements and provide enough information to back it up. however, this is where the shit hit the fan. the fact that you claim starcraft is not good because it is OLD just made me go bananas. i guess you go to parks to punch old people in the head for playing chess or something.

you say starcraft is BORING. that one just made me chuckle, especially since it comes from a guy who plays dota, the most unfriendly game spectator-wise. seriously, do you read what you usually write in comments?

btw, if it werent for this old, boring lacklustre game, you wouldn't be playing dota now, since the whole thing is stolen from a starcraft UMS - Aeon of Strife.

a starcraft picnic finale...

In public Counter-Strike, also known as Free For All (FFA), you don't rely nearly as much on your teammates as you do in DotA nor does dying once or twice set you at such a disadvantage as it does in DotA thus people gets more agitated if their teammates are to blame.

the teammates are always to blame and this idea is always present in the dota community. i have experienced it myself countless times. again, don't try to find excuses - it's simply the kind of people that play it...

I can play tonnes of DotA pubs without ever hearing enemies flame eachother, but often allies flame eachother in all chat, yes, whereas if I play an equal amount of public WC3 I will get flamed

if by public wc3 you mean 1v1s, who should they blame? their cat? the plumber? the gods?
im not implying flaming is justified, im saying its only natural to flame you, you're the ONLY OTHER Player IN THERE!

Of course, this is strictly my own experiences as a players of all 3 games, and yes, if you are bad at DotA you can be sure that your allies will let you know and flame you for being so. Which might explain your hatred of the game and its so horrible manners compared to others.

is it me or you're implying i'm a sore loser? btw i never claim im a good dota player but the overall quality of the people frequenting the realm is really disturbing.

Lastly, I think its ridiculous to even discuss the behavior of public gamers as there are too many games to make an accurate measurement of the manners.

wrong. the game's roots are in the public games - without them, there is no 'high-level'. i would also invite you to check the starcraft community and compare it to the dota community.

And add to that, that both the place you play (whether its Battle.net, Garena or some open IRC community) and the country you're from plays a bigger role than what game you're actually playing. So I'd rather you ask yourself this, vhallee: "Where do I play and where am I from?".

even if i'm romanian (though i don't live in romania anymore) i dont think it has anything to do with it. for the record, i played like 1% of the games in a romanian dota rooms - the rest were on european rooms. but here i have to agree with you a little: the romanian community kinda sucks and im talking about all the gaming realms - sc, cs, wc3, etc.

one more thing: it's funny to see dota being classified as a 'game'. it would be nice if you could understand once and for all that it's just a map, an UMS. (you should use the 'cs is a half life mod' example to try and throw my theory off) and, most of all, it's preposterous to think it can be called esports. however, if i look at the list of games wcg accepts (with wcg being a disgrace to competitive gaming) i cant say it will never happen...

I'll be nicer when you're smarter.

(7 months ago) #20 snN4ke

Actually what is your point?

Have you ever play a dota game?

If yes => I'm really doubt of your "gaming knowledge". :D
If No => I'm really doubt of your "i have written for gaming (not only SC!) sites and magazines both in romania and international magazines/sites"

(7 months ago) #21 vhallee

unlike others, i actually try to 'know my enemy', so of course i have played dota and i still play it with friends.
what you just said really makes me wonder if you actually read what i wrote. it is also crystal clear that you are a dota player and you apparently dont like my criticism. you would only react with negativism if deep down you are actually asking yourself "what if he's right?", otherwise you would simply ignore my reply ;)

in one way it's my fault: i'm bashing dota on an ex-wc3-now-dota-based website. i m outnumbered but never outgunned ;)

I'll be nicer when you're smarter.

(7 months ago) #24 Dendra

you're not alone ;) yes, it is a bad spot for a battlefield, heavily ex-wc3-now-dota-based website, but it takes only one good argument to swipe away hundreds of your enemies and right now i see only few of them :) If force won't work, use greater force.

(6 months ago) #30 snN4ke

Actually, i'm more Wc3 player - dota is just for fun => so much depend on the teammate. and have played dota so => If yes => I'm really doubt of your "gaming knowledge". :D IMO, if one game has so much players playing on => it's not a bad game. And if you have a big community, you have trouble. that's normal.

(7 months ago) #27 Inzek

me 2buks on vhalle... mmm SC boring??? i think the reason why people flame more in dota (it does) is because dota is boring (so to deal with it, lets flame), and because dota is easier (so there's time to flame). so the picture is like... 10 guys getting bored and with plenty of time, or 2 guys completely stressed up and with no time. let me think which is the better scenario for flaming...

(7 months ago) #23 Dendra

1st of all, vhallee thanks for making me read this one, i wasnt even planning to waste time on it, personally i loved one thing - the title, it's original and deserves a far better topic than dota as it really is creative in the way I like it. well the title has gone to waste on an article where we discuss the incredible reasons why dota has so many flamers, if half of these debates happened in real life you know what would happen? you'd bump into a retard who'd get totally owned by you and then in an act od despair he'd just beat the crap out of you as that's the only thing he can do,

same principle applies to dota flaming - "omg omg you killed me, what will i do, i cant accept you killing me, you m* f* I'm gona f* you so hard omg omg I'm crazy, omg and now you called me a noob, I'll *peeeep* *peeep* *peee* *censored violent scenes* *peee*

censored and beautified version of an average reaction in dota when someone defeats you - when we develope social skills we learn to control our anger as much as possible as only 5year old children freak out if they dont get what they want, apparently some parts of human society have stayed on that level.

LET the flaming begin:

mentally handicapped people cant handle difficult operations so they mostly focus on something they understand as they find it fun (if you cant understand something you find it boring and creating zero lust for gaming for you), obviusly warcraft3 is far 2complex with its system of multiple units micro so the poor folks had to switch to something easier and thus create a fun map which spins around one part of what wc3 is, it would've been all fun and cool if they didnt have the guts to start calling it a game and push it around the tournaments.

yes there are worse cases, like guitar hero, you can never underestimate the human stupidity. even wow requires more IQ than dota to understand the game and play it well because believe it or not in for example PvE to be a real pro you need to know some Math - how about that, you think you're l33t because you're playing a map which is based entirely on one unit and teamwork? doh, you're basing your skills entirely on teamwork where everything else my dog could play and chase local cats around at the same time.

oh and maelk, this one is for you, related to your ingenious idea how dota isnt bad at all, it just spins around teamwork:

wow is a heavily based teamwork game, it has millions of users, how come i never witnessed that much retarded behaviour in it as i do every time i just touch dota??? (oh and yes, my friend entered 1st division of dota with pretty boys playing in it so yes ive seen both high end dota and lower parts of it and how an average match looks like)

i mean damn am i missing something, in all honesty i met really, really stupid people in wow, retards in the true meaning of that word (notice that i use that word generally just to describe people that like to do something below their capabilities because it's easier and more fun, hence i like to call them idiots in order to challenge them into doing something closer to their level of intelligence),

so wow has everything it needs to nurture a strong flaming community. not to mention wipes in raids based on stupid people, etc., it is stressful when you waste 8hours on something that takes only 2 simply because some noob doesnt know how to move when you tell him to.

yet i never noticed such people being flamed, even if they were it was in certain situations, in most cases such people are just replaced and nobody calls them bad names, they just f*** up and thats all, no problem, i mean the level of anger and flaming is much lesser than the one in football when your teammate makes a mistake which costs you the game.

i mean seriously the problem is not in teamwork, nor in the parents, they have no idea how their kids behave over internet, i know people that are very nice and pleasant but when thrown in the jungles of dota - when you're in rome, act like a roman, or something like that, right?

problem is simply in anger management and lack of social skills, or at least sense for it - imagine getting a bad grade in school and then starting to scream and shout at the teacher - would you describe that as a normal behaviour? no, you'd be regarded as a childish person which needs to learn to grow up. same is with dota, your reactions and relationship with other clans and gamers is just pathetic.

LET the flaming end.

P.S. Maelk you could've walked away but nooo, you simply had to pull out of your hat that silly statement about starcraft and on top of it list some hillarious reasons why there is flaming in dota - so basically your team spirit is so well-developed that you guys cant communicate without flaming each other? you do realise dota could very well be one of rare games where such communication has "evolved" so much. and when i talk about dota flaming i only refer to communication between teams and players playing on opposite sides, inter-team flaming is not something i found worth mentioning, i mean you can call your allies morons, etc., if you guys communicate like rednecks it's your problem, flaming for me is when you start calling other people morons.

Oh and by the way, seems Vhallee is doing a great job and putting you down so I won't bother with this topic any more, just as I never intented to from the moment I saw it as it was obvius I'd only see comments that would simply make me wonder - was Einstein really right, guess he was.

Last edited by Dendra at 26.11.2008, 15:01

If force won't work, use greater force.

(7 months ago) #25 LastDance

Vhallee & Dendra owned all the kids. but your battle was won at " the fact that there are articles like this one proves my point." - Vhallee.

(7 months ago) #28 sexyfats

so dota is immature compared to your beloved starcraft. that is a fact.

but we never asked you guys to come down from your high horse to tell us why you are superior, so pls gb2 whereever sc guys hang out

pls pardon me eeglish for i am a dota flamer

(7 months ago) #29 Dendra

true, and id never come down from my beautiful black stallion unless certain individuals pushed it 2far (you can see me pointing that out in the P.S. part), my sincere apologies for my lack of self-control as my intention was to bash just one person even though deep inside i knew my comments would hurt many others, collateral damage, so to say, which i was willing to accept, but again, apologies to you and this time with no sarcasm in it, for all i know you could be a great person and i was taught differently than to judge a person based on the people around him/her. (yet i fail in doing so in esports) If force won't work, use greater force.

(7 months ago) #22 Mangiani

Amazingly well-made article; after spending too much time reading dry quotes from Mouz/SK/MYM members about how they feel about the upcoming game and their chances to beat their opponents, this was a nice change. Thumbs up! On a sidenote, also a quite interesting debate between vhallee and Maelk going on here, although the flames at each other are (ironically) drawing a bit too much attention from the real topic. Edit: I have to say though, ending this with a few quotes from PGG, Snow and Buwehka (or pretty much any oldschool IHCS Russian) would make it a masterpiece. Last edited by Mangiani at 25.11.2008, 23:51

(7 months ago) #26 Dope-

Great article, it was funny to read this comments, though reality isn't funny at all. Manner where, manner low! :P

(6 months ago) #31 ChickenBun

Dendra and vhallee.. the level of intellect you guys show are quite impressive..you guys might even be able to prove something false to be true. BE MY ENGLISH TEACHER! :D

(6 months ago) #32 YRmodel

Quoting vhallee: I don't know anything about the SC community cause the game is old, boring and lackluster thus I have no interest in it i guess you go to parks to punch old people in the head for playing chess or something. Great point LOL Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer.

(6 months ago) #33 yinyf

nice.

(5 months ago) #35 devilarchkikay

It is called DOTA Articles for the very reason that it was made for the Dota community. I can't understand what these two people who seem to have had a degree in English or something doing here. Vhalee I don't have the time to read your spams cause it may take me about an hour to digest them into my brain cause I ain't a genius like you. If you despise DOTA so much then continue of what you feel, but please don't advertise it cause we really don't give a damn. Go back to SC and F**k Kerrigan because you look the same. Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.

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