MYM - Anticipations and Expectations for 6.55

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30th September 2008, 22:25

That which is to come

And now we stand at the precipice of destiny, looking down on the path to tomorrow. And lo, the prophecy foretold that 6.55 would be the salvation of DotA pros and noobs alike.

Ok, maybe, that's a bit melodramatic, but there are high expectations that the next stable map will make a concerted effort to speed up DotA and increase its viability as an e-sport. And why shouldn't our expectations be high? DotA has improved tremendously throughout its storied past, and we should remain optimistic about its future.

6.55

So, to reiterate, the underlying question that motivates the changes in 6.55 is, “How can we speed up the game?” Logically, since the game is capped with a push, we could make it easier to push!

Suggestions:

6.48b games had the potential to move quickly if one team claimed an early advantage, because it was easy to snowball. If you won the laning phase by a reasonable margin, you could have a couple Blinks by mid-game. Then you could abuse not only your level advantage, but item advantage in ganks and skirmishes.

There is nothing you can do with ~2000 gold in 6.52e that gives you a sizable advantage over your opponent. Perseverance, Helm of Dominator, Armlet, Mekansm, Boots of Travel...these items are not nearly enough to turn a hero with a good early game into a mid game monster. BKB and Scythe, probably the go-to items of this version, are 3800 gold and 5700 gold respectively. How can we keep games short when the game-breaking items are so pricey?

So stop giving us Shiva's Guard and Orchid Malevolence. We need better CHEAP items if we don't want late-gamers to be the best Defenders of our Ancients.

What do you expect for 6.55?

*There was some miscommunication regarding the posting of parts of this topic between the D-A beta team and the myMYM crew. Wrong approvals have been handed out and parts posted, which shouldn't have been. We apologize for the inconvinience.

Comments (69)

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(9 months ago) #1 killerkoala

Are these "key changes" real?

Sounds good so far..very fun..with a blink buff and a simultaneous TP.. sounds like a lot of ganking :)

(9 months ago) #3 Phil

They are rumoured afaik, but not final. I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(9 months ago) #2 DNRCBeTLuHka

nice done . Lets hope .55 will bring back the action in the game Last edited by CBeTLuHka at 03.10.2008, 11:40

(9 months ago) #4 Wst

i think un-nerf of the blink will sure bring magnus back...

(9 months ago) #21 [SLO]Heldarion

People didn't stop him playing because of hard initiation (you still see people using axe or ES from time to time, and then nobody complains about dagger, do they?) but because he just isn't powerful enough vs the mainstream lategamers.

(9 months ago) #26 Wst

but now by un-nerf the blink, magnus could be great if used wisely, plus the empower is a really good bonus. But one thing I agree with you is he isn't powerful enough to go against mainstream lategamers.

(9 months ago) #35 RAAMZES

The point magnus isnt picked in new verision is coz his ulti is nerfed badly(from 700 to 500 range) and that is all point...new blink is even better for magnus coz of it LONG range(1200...) and he can even blink from the fog of war and his ulti now has 120 cd on all levels...so it is just better to pick up leviathan and go perma gank then magnus...and btw leviathan dont have to use blink coz of his 1000 range ulti..

(9 months ago) #37 Wst

Ya I know that his ulti is nerfed badly and nowdays people prefer use tide as a initiator... but i was just saying if a person can really use magnus wisely... it could be better than tide... with just a good stun, the rest of your teammates spell can get the advantage of damaging maximum heroes... for example qop wave... I noe doing this maybe quite hard but i believe there is someone out there can make good use of magnus... maybe hailo? which have a very good timing... or papaxiong? nobody noes... anyway this was juz my opinion... no offence...

(9 months ago) #39 RAAMZES

No offence ofcourse :) i just said but many teams use magnus in this verision coz of blink dagger "nerf" but it got longer range...and i remember my team lose some games to good magnus and btw from professional teams only Sk use it...And only Akke and Bogdan(when he was in team)...but i think Loda can do it easly 2...

(9 months ago) #42 Wst

Haha... i'm looking forward of Ks-papaxiong using it... I like papaxiong playing style... is like a little unpredictable...

(9 months ago) #5 YoSnail

Very good summary of the key changes people have talked about. I think there are two key ones not included, though: - nerfing the time duration and area of heroes' map vision skills (e.g. Brood's webs) to make ganking more viable. - an adjustment somehow to the gold recieved for kills. This is to make kills more profitable, and to make it harder for a team to turtle in hopes of late-game victory, yet still not making a comeback after a kill deficit impossible.

(9 months ago) #6 BlackStar_

the obs/sentry wards last 3 min instead of 6 min, and the bm hawk's is no longer invi T_T but the new KotL will be top pick for sure

(9 months ago) #7 SsQJohPz

Agree with those possible changes, good article.

(9 months ago) #8 LupinSeyren

i agree with that blink dagger nerf ^^ only heroes n their summons can disable it ^^

(9 months ago) #9 jumpforce

@4: i think the bkb nerf is an indirect magnus nerf

(9 months ago) #10 DotA.beSpecteri

the stun from magnus' ulti goes through bkb anyways ;p. megastunner heroes just arent that great now because theres no need to keep enemyheroes permastunned to prevent them from blinking, hence magnus' effectivity was reduced. With the global warming, I heard blond is the new latino..

(9 months ago) #11 -mashi-

5 secs BKB..... o_O

(9 months ago) #14 imported_JoeZoo

I believe that BKB starts at the regular 9sec, maybe longer, and each time it is used it loses one sec of duration. So first time you use it, you have 9sec of Avatar, and then 8, 7, etc all the way to 5. This effectively kills the idea of using BKB and TP to escape, and it may even discourage the rushing of said BKB.

The 'unnerf' of blink, I think, is exactly what everyone has been waiting for.

The 'tweaking' of some carry heroes is not enough. Spider needs a nerf, bigtime. I haven't seen a game lately where she hasn't been banned, let alone a game where she has lost.

(9 months ago) #24 -mashi-

Oh i see. Thanks for that. I tought its perma 5 secs from the start. prevent BKB-tp-ing i guess :O.

(9 months ago) #29 laskAMAZING

true i mean seriously the spiderlings are just way too overpowered since they take 3 tower hits and can duplicate themselves and therefore allowing some easy towerpushes even early game where you stand nearly no chance against them.

(9 months ago) #12 Bejay

The Version suXXs... Greetings: TO ME, ME AND ME! Over 9000 like NP!

(9 months ago) #13 NLDUTCH_FREAK

This comment has been deactivated by the admin crew due to its content.

(9 months ago) #15 C0DIllidan_demonH

Bring out secound Roshan with cheese starting from the first one, make the map simetricall, one at sentinel end and one at scourge end it will make very interesting team fights for the trasure.... also it will balance the map...not to mrntion it will make the devaine reaper playable... And just undo the dagger nerf, that is all. Last edited by Illidan_demonH at 03.10.2008, 17:19 100% Perfection is unachievable, but 99.9% is!

(9 months ago) #16 melvinwaaa

Make towers more soft. xD If you ain't first, your last.

(9 months ago) #17 C0DIllidan_demonH

/ Last edited by Illidan_demonH at 03.10.2008, 17:20 100% Perfection is unachievable, but 99.9% is!

(9 months ago) #18 Nukes-

Quoting melvinwaaa: Make towers more soft. xD -em? -.- Me like DotA ^_^

(9 months ago) #19 aWrnSS

So needed, seems to be excelent. May I cry? (?) aWrnSS

(9 months ago) #20 loki-PEPSI

This comment has been deactivated by the admin crew due to its content.

(9 months ago) #22 [SLO]Heldarion

dagger nerf is kind of..meh, dunno why would it change anything, if you're getting chased by creeps, you prolly won't die either way and if you're getting chased by heroes the situation will look pretty much the same. I doubt it will do anything about the initiation so meh.

(9 months ago) #23 Xhard

rofl , do you play this game called dota ? you're completely off

(9 months ago) #48 4KFmatthe

Could you explain this a little bit more instead of saying something without any evidence????? Helda gave a good explanation. If you think its wrong, then proove it plz!

╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦

(9 months ago) #67 Xhard

Well now that we've seen the new dagger it is pretty obvious it's a big change . Anyone who says otherwisee is just retarded :P I dont even have to explain anything . (Im not saying heldarion is retarded , btw he has pretty hair)

(9 months ago) #25 PKDGloRyforGreeCe

maybe cut down one tower in each lane so we have 2 tower and then racks ^^ ofc the map will be smaller then and probably less farm more push etc etc

(9 months ago) #27 Wst

well... from my opinion this will only make dota less interesting to play if there is less tower...

(9 months ago) #28 Iblis

NO leaking please. Sigh. Garena already removed this article. I hear your silence loud and clear

(9 months ago) #30 Forkxx

Maybe we shouldn't hope much for this "rumor changes", but if this changes come, it's fine for me. The partially un-nerfed dagger will bring Tiny back? ;D It's Coke time!

(9 months ago) #31 123sekuNda

well i would like to think that the dagger will be un nerfed like its "said" gg no re!

(9 months ago) #32 SUIdisrup3

This comment has been deactivated by the admin crew due to its content.

(9 months ago) #33 Iblis

Please remove this. :( I hear your silence loud and clear

(9 months ago) #34 shiGGsanity

i really like the idea of widening the ramp, it really is gay trying to push against certain heros.

(9 months ago) #36 Flex-

Make ppl be more reasonable with creeps, that players would be able to make stronger push creeps and mby some new ones etc... make this game more micro based Sup?

(9 months ago) #38 Rev_WeN

'So stop giving us Shiva's Guard and Orchid Malevolence. We need better CHEAP items if we don't want late-gamers to be the best Defenders of our Ancients.'

IMO its too unfair to say so. Do you want every single game to be pure BKB + Hex on every hero ? Icefrog increase price on BKB/hex because he wants to see those item less picked, and make other items viable.

And why do you think those items are useless ? IMO those items are good for what they are made for. You should really, really reconsider your points. :)

Edit : removed the 'nerf' word, but my opinion still stands.

Last edited by Rev_WeN at 04.10.2008, 21:28

(9 months ago) #40 RAAMZES

Hmmm...I think you didnt undrestand...He didnt said that items have no use...he just said they are not CHEAP items...and he is right that we need some good cheap items...and he nerfed with price BKB and how is that???He buffed it with lower CD, and no mana cost...y right it got nerfed....And hex range 1000???+10 all stats?

(9 months ago) #41 Maeka

let's get ready to rumble :D

(9 months ago) #43 srsSilentCat

I've also heard buyback is to be removed, I think some changes here can make the game even longer, I just hope those late game nerfs are strong enough. You can't place wards with crow -> you play more defensively, less action on map since one hero will have to go from lane (where most of the action happens to place wards) possible ganks might happen. But still imagine in late game, you have to RISK your game (and I'm not saying risk doesn't pay sometimes, but most won't dare) by going into other teams woods to place wards to be able to gank -> even more defensive playstyle. You have decay on your BKB -> you play more defensively, you won't risk going far away with a tp scroll. You can't buyback -> you play more defensively, even though I agree that buyback in late is imbalanced, since 2000 gold is easier to farm than 200 gold in the beginning of the game with heroes such as TB or Luna, but still is a tricky change, but players who make a mistake should be dead for the timing of their level, and shouldn't be able to rebuy themselves just for 1400 gold, it's simply annoying and game changing and game prolonging. You can all use TP's at the same time -> you push less towers. It's good they've added that when you port it doesn't give 1000 armor to the tower but yet again, this change can make the teams play EVEN MORE defensively since they're scared of making a mistake which cant be fixed. This play style will favor the global strats even more than it acctually is right now, since 1 gank is pretty much gamebreaking, and do you think with heroes like spectre/furion/tinker (with bot) ganking is hard? No nerfs on late game heroes -> you play the same as 52e. I hope the changes are strong. Also I just imagine people playing other late game heroes, like phantom assassin, stealth assassin, etc, those strange powerful late game heroes who rape pretty much anyone if farmed enough. Well time will tell, I don't know but some of these changes can make the "mirror" effect we all don't want, I mean game is played competitevely to be won not to make it better for the viewers, nhf ofc, but some of these changes point at the other direction. Last edited by SilentCat at 05.10.2008, 05:35

(9 months ago) #44 aburamen

This comment has been deactivated by the admin crew due to its content.

(9 months ago) #45 bondgorbataa

yeah seeing PA, SA would be great...

(9 months ago) #46 Shuv0007

I heard that 3 new heros r cming in 6.55....Elven Archer,Admiral Proudmore and murdock.......ne comments

(9 months ago) #47 panties

wtf mods, you don't want people to leak data when the things discussed here are, GUESS WHAT!....leaked data.

(9 months ago) #49 4KFmatthe

Its soooo easy to find the newest beta DotA Version by searching with help of google.... New dagger = more ganks hopefully... if not, blame the players for not using the new things they got :P ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦

(9 months ago) #50 4KFNyPG

I wonder where these rumours come from. Beta testers are not to release any information. But I do hope that blink dagger is buffed.

(9 months ago) #55 4KFmatthe

:D Its so easy to find films 4 weeks before release in the i-net, so why should be people not able to find beta DotA maps?

I know that Icefrog said that you arent allowed to give any infos but since google gives you everything you cant hide anything...

╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦

(9 months ago) #56 aD.Beast_Pete

No, it's not like that. There have been several releases that were not leaked. Of course we cannot always stop leakers, but even if a map is leaked, a site working on organizing the biggest online DotA tournaments should not leak info and shouldn't allow people to discuss leaked stuff. If Blizzard told myMYM.com not to release any info about SC2, not even as rumors or else they ban myMYM.com from their site, would myMYM.com reveal any rumors?

Several people including me have told bunny (and maybe Phil as well) what the consequences would be if they published this article with the so-called rumors. They did not listen. So don't be surprised if no more news are published on the official DotA-Allstars forums and page regarding MYM tournaments ever again. I mean, wtf?? Comments requesting the removal of this article were all deleted, while the leaks are still all there. This is blasphemy! I am ashamed that I worked with people so unable to be partners in making an e-sport game become a real e-sport.

While I am writing this, the article had 8056 views. This is a really high number, and obviously myMYM.com is proud they achieved this much, a big traffic and a lot of money from advertisements. But I'm pretty sure they will lose much more in the future. Losing the support of IceFrog, the official site, other sites and organizers is more than just 8000 views.

I hope this will be a good lesson for myMYM.com administration, that not everything is about money. And to learn where your place is. Your DotA coverage has grown big, but alone you won't be able to do much anymore. Good luck with the other e-sports!

(9 months ago) #57 dBR-Ichabod_Crane

I agree with Beast_Pete! And I agree with the aproach of the official DotA-Allstars forum about this subject... It's not the first myMYM.com's article that speaks about bullshit... Just remember the one about Korea and gaming... And we have to hear the suggestion about this NotCheese guy who pretend that he know something about DotA... Last edited by Ichabod_Crane at 07.10.2008, 00:44

(9 months ago) #58 4KFmatthe

The biggest problem is that DotA isnt a "real" Trademark. Since its a map based on a Blizzard game, DotA is basically fucked up. There is no way it will become proffessional when there arent any sponsors allowed because of Blizzard. DotA has basically no real chances to survive unless it wont become an own game!

Atm it survives only because of the huge community only and sites like MYM give YOU the advertising that DotA actually needs to get more people interested in it! What do you think will happen when MYM quits with DotA and DotA news? The proffessional DotA level will decrease significantly and only Public and some other tournaments will stay but it will be basically the big END. MYM gave a big effort into the whole community hosting many tournaments, DotA improved because of that when it was on a low level! So what you actually do is to end maybe the greatest advertising support! Many tournaments started because of the MYM support and famous organizations like ESWC, DH started with DotA as a tourney game coz of that.

You know that you arent allowed to publish anything so dont break up bonds which help you to survive!

Im no longer in MYM since 3 weeks but imo they did something for DotA no one else did! And such rumours help you aswell. But stupidly also MYM.... thats the point where I agree with you!

╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦

(9 months ago) #59 TAFIngolf2

So myMYM kills DotA, and DotA kills myMYM... Who wins? Oo Morale: Don't post stuff like this. It's a loss-loss situation. Last edited by Ingolf2 at 07.10.2008, 01:00

(9 months ago) #60 aD.Beast_Pete

I agree that myMYM.com helped a lot for DotA to become more professional. And that's what makes me sad. Bunny has done a really good job in organizing the recent Pride Defending tournaments and the first League.

But I doubt DotA would die without myMYM.com, I'm pretty sure about it. There are already several other big tournaments and there's Garena Client which will make sure, DotA can remain a professional game and grow even bigger.

DotA is a trademark. Maybe not like Starcraft, but many many people know it. 5 million active players. And millions who have tried it before. A big community and actually the strongest one currently in computer gamings. Wether DotA tournaments can get sponsorship is not up to a "real" trademark. It's up to how many visitors a tournament can generate. How much money the sponsors can get back from sponsoring a tournament. The prize moneys have been raising a lot during the past some years... don't forget that 2 years ago no money were involved, while now thousands of dollars is given to the winners in bigger LAN events, and 1-2000 dollars total prize money for online tournaments.

So myMYM.com might need DotA (don't know datas, but I'm sure that DotA generated the biggest viewcount after CS on the site). But DotA does not necessarily need myMYM.com.

(9 months ago) #61 4KFmatthe

Lets say that it is not only about the fact to grow up a community but it is also important to have the community on one level. When i.e. some people leave, the same amout of new people has to join the community and they can only join when there are advertisings. Sites/Communities like Garena also live because they are used as a hosting/streaming service for DotA. It's a loss-loss situation like Ingolf said. DotA depends on too many things and these things also depend on DotA. If one side drops out, the other side will follow... ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦

(9 months ago) #51 xed1na

blink dagger is buffed but i dont think enough,its disabled time needs to be lowered from 3sec to 2 or 1.5. Last edited by xed1na at 06.10.2008, 00:44 Puking Bee Yaht Chese

(9 months ago) #52 jobski

Quoting Heldarion: dagger nerf is kind of..meh, dunno why would it change anything, if you're getting chased by creeps, you prolly won't die either way and if you're getting chased by heroes the situation will look pretty much the same. I doubt it will do anything about the initiation so meh. i so much agree...initiation is no prob w/ magnus and centaur using blink dagger, strategize well using it, as an escape item no need to nerf it will no longer make the game much longer to end

(9 months ago) #53 DotA.beSpecteri

the new inthero seems proper rigged. With the global warming, I heard blond is the new latino..

(9 months ago) #54 PainK

..... PaiN StriKe lyK LiGhtnin

(9 months ago) #62 amimamimo

bkb decays??? o_0!

(9 months ago) #63 lem1

map is out! getdota

(9 months ago) #64 Cool_csiga

Matthe u are still defending your and your site's fckin money in all of your comments and hitting your chest that MYM did so much and so forth... i also doubt that w/o mym the dota will die out... lol... what a selfish approach ..i know we live in such a world where money dominates, but i still could not use out a team( icefrog's team) as mym do, its so disgusting and ridicoulos...
its not a loss-loss situation, let me show you what is this
MYM ---- dota community
!!!$$$!!$LOSS!$$!$!---(loss)
i think it is understandable... if no then read it once more... or twice..

(9 months ago) #65 4KFmatthe

Dont worry dude^^ I'm not such a big defender as you actually think^^ I rather try to defend DotA by abusing MYM^^ ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦ The fence of the Ancients ╦╦╦╦╦╦╦

(9 months ago) #66 aD.Beast_Pete

Csiga, you can be sure Matthe isn't defending myMYM.com much anymore. :) It's true that DotA will suffer loss from this as well, but in the end it will be myMYM.com that will suffer the most. We can live without money, we can live without big tournaments, because we are a big community. Of course it slows down the process of getting DotA more professional, but we can live without it. MYM cannot live without the money though. However they won't decay, SC2 coming out next year probably... lots of visitors for myMYM.com. -.-

(9 months ago) #68 Cool_csiga

sc2<dota imo...

(9 months ago) #69 VkBanjkan3

Not that it matters much any more but it's totally disgusting to see the levels to which some people will sink.

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