MYM - Meet Your Marketmechanisms

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03rd September 2008, 22:00

Meet Your Marketmechanisms

In a recent article on SK Gaming, Michael 'Carmac' Blicharz took a swing against TUT (The Unnamed Team) for being the main reason why WC3-salaries have come out of proportion. This is not an attack on that article, but a mere explanation of the facts and history that Carmac chose not to include in his piece.

The main argument behind the article, is that the excessive amount of money TUT is putting into their WC3-squad is twisting the salary expectations for all the WC3 players. It does hold some truth, as money given to Player A will give Player B a better understanding of what he is worth; as in if Player B is better than Player A he will want to recieve more money than him.

That is pretty logical. But the rest of the equation just falls apart when the author wants to blame TUT. Because there has to be an organization to pay Player B the amount he wants. If there isn't, then Player B will have to lower his expectations to his salary to get a contract. Now, where in that part does TUT hold any responsibility?


	ToD. One of the players that has succesfully navigated around between organizations, getting his salary-demands accepted.

One could probably argue that TUT's competitors will have to keep up with their wages, to keep up with their pace, which is not true.

Unless TUT would employ the entire top of the WarCraft-scene, there will still be plenty of good - and great - players left over for the competitors to capture.

And in a WC3-landscape where the last 3 top-tier events has had 3 different winners (KODE5, ESWC Masters and ESWC GF), other teams would still get champions.

One of TUT's competitors could be called Sauer Krauts. They employed a business-strategy much like TUT's; trying to get as many trophies as possible in as little time as possible, knowing that champions create fans and fans create good business.

They actually even did that, before TUT hit the WC3-market in the Summer 2004. At that point Sauer Krauts was already one of the biggest teams, with one of the best rosters. They had been using money to get that roster; and used money to keep it intact - expanding the budget year by year.

In the mean time, another competitor to TUT - let's call them The Kings - had the absolute top roster of the entire WC3-community. With the exception of one player - who was captured by a Chinese organization in 2005 (who eventually overbid The Kings in terms of salary and bonuses) - The Kings managed to keep that roster together until late 2007. They had a 6-digit euro-sponsorship with one of the biggest players in the industry, and managed to use up all of their money before letting the team go.

While all this was happening, TUT had managed to put together a top-tier WC3-team and create a business-strategy that attracted sponsors and investors alike. The old saying of "if you want to make money, you have to spend money" seems to be true for TUT, as the organization is still investing lots of money into areas where others have to draw out.

And while the original article would like you all to think it's because of inflated wages, it is in fact because most other teams have failed to capitalize on what they have. What is the reasoning behind going into a wage-race if you don't have a strategy on how to earn money on it?


World Elite pulled out as ReMinD and Lyn wanted a salary increase. A German organization decied to bring them on board; but what did they get out of it?

Take the Sauer Krauts for example. One year ago, they put a huge investment in to a new WC3-roster; one that could bring them to the top again.

But for what? Nobody thought that the team-events of WC3 would just go bezerk, bringing millions of dollars into the game - so why get a whole team? Well, the fact is that nobody knows but themselves.

Maybe out of necessity to keep up with TUT, maybe with the hope of making a mark on something - or closing a special deal. Instead, they will now have to ask themselves if it was worth it, as the team will probably be shut down before long.

Bonus question: Who killed WC3L? Was it investments from the teams participating or was it the founders of the tournament who can pay out 25,000€ two times a year for a national league of solo-players, while they only give 20,000€ to the very best teams and players in WC3? Who was it that actually downplayed the seriousness of the league?

Comments (63)

Page :

(10 months ago) #1 Mantraa

Very well written, nice explanation on top of that, seems to me that it was totally just a biased article @ Sauer Krauts. Tbh, it's senseless to blame wage boosting when if the other players deserved it and could perform at such a high peak, they would already have the salary that equals what their tiered players are receiving as long as an organization existed that could boast such a payout

(10 months ago) #2 GenoZStriker

Phil owns. Nice article. Demigod ESL 2v2 Opening Cup - http://www.esl.eu/eu/demigod/

(10 months ago) #3 Flex-

not naming teams, espcially 4k was kinda pointles, you gave out enaugh unique facts about the team so that almost any chobo in the gaming sceene could have guesses who you were talking about.
Shouldhave just asked permision and wirtten it properly ( and if you did ask and didm't get it, im sorry for bringing it out )

Last edited by Flex- at 03.09.2008, 23:19

Sup?

(10 months ago) #8 Phil

I can understand your point of view, but I have done this for a very specific reason.

The article is supposed to be an ironic response to Carmac's article; something that people who have read that one should recognize pretty fast.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask them.

I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #9 Flex-

well now im just curios, can you give the link to the article that you replyed at?

Sup?

(10 months ago) #11 Phil

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/18066- More_of_Your_Money_kills_Warcraft_3 Right there. I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #4 4KFNyPG

Very nice article, well written. I believe you have a type for the caption of the 2nd picture. "but what did they get out OF it?" should be correct.

Last edited by NyPG at 03.09.2008, 23:17

(10 months ago) #7 Phil

Damn! You are spot on, gonna fix it :) I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #5 4KFNyPG

oops it somehow double-posted :s sorry Last edited by NyPG at 03.09.2008, 23:18

(10 months ago) #6 NieSwiety

Well written Phil. www.NieSwiety.dakabum.pl

(10 months ago) #10 luvstyle

________"That is pretty logical. But the rest of the equation just falls apart when the author wants to blame TUT. Because there has to be an organization to pay Player B the amount he wants. If there isn't, then Player B will have to lower his expectations to his salary to get a contract. Now, where in that part does TUT hold any responsibility?"

the teams like the old WE suffered from this inflation created by MYM. the players left cause their expactations couldnt be handled by World Elite.

second part i dont like in this article, is that you wanna make it sound like myms players (moon, lucifer, soccer, grubby, susiria, eve) cover their salarys totally, and mym isnt running by investment money or what?

(10 months ago) #12 Phil

1. WE suffered from the inflation created, because there was another team willing to pay them a higher salary. That was not MYM, but SK.

2. MYM cannot create the inflation alone. No matter how many times you say it, it's total bullshit. That is unless you want to re-write all economical theories about the free market.

3. I am not in any way making it sound like all of MYM's players are covering their own costs; I simply state that the business-model projected by the organization is getting sponsors and investors to put money in the business - something other organizations seems to have problems with.

I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #14 Johnlolxxx448

In whichever way you turn it, the fact that MYM is willing to pay twice the standard to star players like Moon or Grubby is resulting in higher demands or wishes for salary among the other players.

I don't belive this equals an inflation in player salary but it helps to destabilize the market. When Remind and Lyn knows that MYM is paying Moon twice their salary and knowing they are approximately on the same level it must encourage them to look for a new team providing better money. And this continuing search for higher salary among star players may have loured managers to hire players at a wage the team income couldnt support thus resulting in teams closing.

What i really mean is that, SK should not be attacking the wages of MYM players. Have they ever stopped to consider if MYM is actually making money from their business? MYM has made Moon a superstar with a huge fanbase and made an income of it. This could not have been done without the star players and although the majority of the income is not tournament prices maybe the players are worth the cost?

When Real Madrid wants to buy Christiano Ronaldo for an insane amount of money they are not planning on returning that investment from tournament awards, but from bringing fame, selling merchandise and from visitors. Like that MYM is profitting from the stars through site visitors, merchandise and the fame and prestige.

One question remains, however. Will MYM gain from killing all competition in WC3L? WC3L must still be acredited a lot of importance in respect to the continuous spotlight on starplayers around the world and could MYM continue without that extra profit?

(10 months ago) #15 Phil

I would never claim that paying higher wages wouldn't raise the overall demands for more money. Actually I make it quite clear in one of the first paragraphs, that this point is true in Carmac's article.

If organizations gear their business; and thereby wages, to what they can do - instead of trying to emulate something they have no financial backing to do - there would be no inflation though. MYM can't buy out every major player, draining the market for talent, so there will still be plenty of players left for less money than right now (there is a but to it though; the fierce competition between organizations about the same sponsormoney makes it a very clear-cut race - get the best players or get lost. That situation might have a bigger hand in the inflation than MYM has).

This is where football-analogies come in handy. Real Madrid bought David Beckham for apprx. 20 mio. £, or 200 mio. Danish Kroner (I'm not too sure of the exact amount right now), and in his time in the club it is estimated they got a return of investment that was worth 200 mio. £ in shirtsales, merchandise, sponsors and what-not. Like you mention Ronaldo, that is what you can get out of your best players.

Have MYM killed all the competition in WC3L? They had a lacklustre online-season in the spring - going through a playoff-match before securing a spot. In the finals they even lost to Mouz before winning twice against them in the Grand Final. Is that killing the league? No.

To me it is clear that WC3L has grown ESL over their heads. They have the best WC3-players in the world attending their online and offline-matches, but aren't able to sell it for more than 20,000€ a season.

What is killing WC3L is... WC3L. No developement in prizemoney or event-size on a eSports-scene that is going into hyperdrive is just.. well, unambitious to say the least.

And to answer your question - I don't think MYM would gain anything from killing WC3L. Atleast not in the short run (honestly, not even Carmac gives a fuck anyway, as we are probably going to see SC2CL in half a year or so).

I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #18 luvstyle

phil, your opinion to this whole story can be summarized:

"we have the big investor, so we can afford to spend this sums of money on wc3. if other teams dont have that much money, they shouldnt get those players. its their own fault."

i agree about the esl/wc3l part though.

(10 months ago) #20 Phil

My opinion can be summarized to; if organizations didn't pay salaries their business-models couldn't afford, there wouldn't be a wage-race or -inflation.

As long as organizations pay their players a salary so they can still make enough money to run their business, it isn't a problem. Then the organizations will just have to adjust (cut expenses, increase expenses, draw out of markets and enter new ones), instead of just posting money in what seems to be a prestige-project for some teams.

I do believe that teams which has a working business-plan; e.g getting in sponsor and investment-money is of course entitled to use them according to their long-term strategy. After all, it is a free market and everybody have the same possibilities.

(If it was a closed market however, like NHL or NFL, one could argue that there should be a salary-cap. But as long as this is free for all, I really don't see the problem. Limiting teams that have funds woul be, communistic to put it short).

Last edited by Phil at 04.09.2008, 14:26

I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #28 luvstyle

the price for gas and petrol is high. in your oppinion we should stop using cars to low the costs.
in formula1 as an example: mclaren can afford it, jordan cant. so jordan should either buy medium gasoline or stop for all.

thats a pretty naive way of thinking if you ask me.

(10 months ago) #52 Phil

Pretty bad example. If petrol gets too expensive for people to use - they will actually stop using it. And for Jordan they would pull out of the sport or go broke trying to get better contracs with sponsors. I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #37 Dknight

Perhaps WC3L is not an integral part of Turtle Entertainment's marketing plans and development? Maybe they invest 25,000 Euros twice a year for German leagues because German sponsors and advertisers are interested in the German market and not international? Perhaps they're doing exactly what MYM is doing.

(10 months ago) #38 Phil

I never said anything against that. And I would never do that. But in Carmac's article he blames TUT for killing the WC3L. But the fact is that ESL doesn't focus on it - which is killing it.

The only reason I question what they do, is to make an example to the readers. I would have done exactly the same in their shoes.

I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #40 Affentod

So you are saying that higher WC3L prize money would make salaries stay stable or even drop?

I just can't see the relation between prize money and salaries that you are assuming here. If WC3L is being killed - thus losing in importance - then why are salaries for the best players in that league actually rising?

WC3L just had its by far most successful final event both in terms of on-site and online spectators. The clans in the finals now get a lot more exposure than before which is as you yourself have written the largest part of a player's market price.

Turtle Entertainment not putting any focus on WC3L is total bogus. Our League Operations department responsible for all ESL pro leagues is run by the WC3L founder Baschi with around half of his co-workers being long-time WC3L admins.

WC3L is the only completely autonomous international league within ESL. There's no link to any other level of ESL's structure. That makes it totally unique but also hard to understand for outsiders. I am positive that with the recent increase in spectator numbers we will see WC3L thrive and bloom for quite some time to come.

(10 months ago) #41 Phil

You must have misunderstood me somewhere. I don't indicate that there is a connection between prizemoney in the WC3L and the players' salaries. If I did do that, please point it out, because that was not my intention at all. Quoting Affentod: If WC3L is being killed - thus losing in importance - then why are salaries for the best players in that league actually rising? Do you really, honestly, believe that it is due to WC3L that the player salaries are rising? Quoting Affentod: WC3L just had its by far most successful final event both in terms of on-site and online spectators. The clans in the finals now get a lot more exposure than before which is as you yourself have written the largest part of a player's market price. As Mark Cheben also mentioned in a comment: It's China. Who wonders that the WC3L-finals held in China gathers the highest number of spectators ever. It's like saying there is ice on the North Pole. And yes, it does add to the market price - and value of the players - but the time consumed in WC3L, compared with the prizemoney and the exposure (on a market that is so damn hard to enter, that a high percentage of all foreign companies withdraw again) is just zzz. I can see the wording is a little hard. I might need to change the bonus-question to somehing like "If the WC3L is being killed" instead of the question. Anyway, it wasn't to piss on ESL i put that in, as it serves as a summary of the article and gives another ending than Carmac's piece. What I mean though, is that if anything kills the WC3L, it will be due to ESL not giving the teams optimal conditions for playing - and not teams drawing out because they can't afford it. I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #13 espMisio

Looks interesting but I'm god damn to tired to read it with understanding. Ill def. read it when i'll wake up and comment :) Edit: Very good read - touche SK ;p Last edited by espMisio at 04.09.2008, 13:29

(10 months ago) #16 GWGkellyMILKIES

What a good write. ku kub kubski ''>o</

(10 months ago) #17 Unbelievable

This article is very interesting to read. Good response to SK stuff. P.S. and nice ToD photo too xD P.P.S. SK + MYM = <3 Last edited by Unbelievable at 04.09.2008, 08:24 Boo!

(10 months ago) #19 laskAMAZING

pff do you know that its fucking wrong to call germans sauerkrauts? since we only eat 7kg per person of sauerkraut in a year? You should call us schweinebraten or currywurst !

(10 months ago) #21 defs.unyy

I can agree with your opinion, however my understanding on what a WC3 team is goes beyond the WC3L or NGL competitions. Take Rainbow case as an example, before he went to mtw he was performing quite well but some months later his performance was totally different.

In my opinion due to the fact that he lost almost all of his practice partners from ex-NiP/KOW3. What i'm trying to say his: Good players are made by their own team colleagues.

My point goes exactly in the same way for GoStop, who started to underperform after his lonely stay at eStro. For me isn't quite clear if a "solo" option would be a good decision for any team.

I know this fact isn't directly related with the article but i think is a good point to discuss, mainly if we assume that a bet in double wage for a player could turn into lost money a few months later.

(10 months ago) #56 KPicyF

One could argue that f.e. Moon didn't under perform during his solo career. Last edited by icyF at 05.09.2008, 19:22 How do you do, my name is Trouble.

(10 months ago) #22 Obelisk7

Copying business models you don't fully understand, lack funds to copy, lack experience to manage, and all that jazz is kinda like...wtf are these other teams doing. It should be kinda obvious you don't go over budget, else you'll lose more profits then you can generate with your players in the long run. All these players are asking for "higher" salaries, and teams are attempting to satisfy those needs and whatnot...but has it ever crossed their minds that if they wanted to reach a point as a organization to heed to the needs of the players, that they themselves should just go into the players face and tell them the brutal facts: "If you want more money, you and the team need to make more money" MYM does what they do because they can facilitate in their own individual way, and their model of doing things seems to work. Their players proved they can provide good income due to high rankings consistently, reassuring MYM and their sponsors can up the pay of their star players, and some of the other players, without hurting in the long run due to their CONSISTENCY. The team as a whole works together to make sure they can provide enough profits to keep their salaries where they are at, and people get kicked off if they don't perform well enough after a period of time, and hinders other divisions of MYM. The other teams are being, well stupid, trying to be something they are not. They should stick to what they are BEST at, and use that to try and eventually make their teams create enough profit for higher salaries. Whether other star players like it or not, they should realize they aint getting paid more unless A) They join MYM because the organization has the funds to add them or B) Stop yapping and whining, and improve their own TEAM to help achieve this higher salary they crave for. The Organization gave them the opportunity to make a PROFIT off gaming, and they should be grateful just for that. Any added bonuses should be earned, because the organizations are already allowing them to travel and compete in something they love doing and are good at. If the star players are doing good, but the team as a whole is not, the star players are responsibility to act as teachers and help the team overall, and understand the organization is only going to pay more if the team as a whole makes more profits. Whether one or more divisions carry the organization to allow higher salaries for all game divisions, or the organization as a whole steps up their players to facilitate their higher needs, fact is they need to stick with how they are, and the players need to accept the fact MYM is MYM, and the only MYM. No one else can mimic that. They have to find their own way for better living. "Take Nothing For Granted, For Everything Changes"

(10 months ago) #23 4KFLeatherface

why so much noise now and none when 4kings disband??? ;/

4K faiting!!!!!!!!!!!!

(10 months ago) #26 4KFXythical

The disbanning of 4K was actualy the first hearth attack of WC3 Than BET Than Mouz ...... Number 6 will be fatal :)

(10 months ago) #24 lost

Sauer Krauts :D okay, that's the only part of the column that's funny, the rest just sounds like apologizes..

(10 months ago) #25 vTMirhi

Anxious to see what Carmac does to respond. In all honesty, his article was complete nonsense. Blaming MYM for SK's shortcomings. Who was it that paid Sweet and Zacard again?

(10 months ago) #27 DotA.beSpecteri

Nice own. I wish every retarded article the bloated SK writers posted would get owned by one like this. With the global warming, I heard blond is the new latino..

(10 months ago) #29 Morg

Nice Phil. And if anyone doesn't agree with the sound economic reasoning behind this article 1) Get your head out of the sand 2) Go and do an economics degree.

I think the biggest thing wrong with most teams that have these big big names and pay them loads is as Phil says, they fail to capitalize on them financially. The marketing potential of grubby for example is something that seemed to be forgotten at 4k, where as here... Need I say more.

Last edited by Morg at 04.09.2008, 18:38

(10 months ago) #33 GoSeRaPh-

Economics degree is what i do and Phil is not totally right saying that other teams can pay lower salaries. You seems to have done economics degree so you know that first of all, the salaries will be higher if a team pay their player more, that's a fact, and SK for exemple have no other choice than pay if they want a good wc3 team (and they probably need one) because all those players doesn't really need a team, Lyn won 51k$ by himself which means more than 7k$ a month, i think it's quite enough to live. But he is right saying it's their own fault if they tried and failed, even if i'm not sure they really had the choice.

And to be honest, MYM hiring so much good players and pay them so high salaries isn't that good on an economic point of view. If there is no more interesting teams competitions, they are going to lose money because having the greatest solo star would be enough. Moon, Grubby and Lucifer are enough for MYM to show them to the community, no need to pay Soccer and Susiria which are really good in warcraft -especially soccer which is my favourite ne player atm- but not so well known that is why they may not be able to bring back MYM their income.

P.S : sorry for my english, i do believe it is pretty bad written. I just hope you will understand :D

(10 months ago) #43 Morg

I understand what you mean man :) At the end of the day there is no one factor controlling the WC3 salaries and that is something I think all of us, bar carmac can agree on.

(10 months ago) #30 underatker

Im guessing relations between SK & mYm arent so good at the moment or?..

(10 months ago) #31 jESUIT

I don't think WC3 investment is worth it at all, period. It's huge in China and has a large presence in Germany ... but Chinese numbers are nearly impossible to capitalize on UNLESS you simply want BIG numbers to report back. I can see the allure in that and if your business strategy is to build these numbers up and then sell the brand it makes sense. If you are trying to use your WC3 players to bring in additional sponsors and adhere to the traditional esports business model you are screwed.

Chinese numbers are worthless to non Chinese advertisers, and those advertisers/sponsors who do value them get either cheap sponsorships within China (remember why the Koreans left WE in the first place) or get paid so people can use their names.

In short, WC3's problem isn't the rise in salaries it is that the game is dead outside of two countries. Granted, I personally don't see how huge outlays of capital on persons who bring little to the bottom line makes sense ... regardless of how much prestige they bring to the organization.

Last edited by jESUIT at 04.09.2008, 19:51

(10 months ago) #36 Phil

Glad to see you comment here Mr. Cheben :) There is no point in building huge numbers up from markets your investors (I guess that is what you mean by selling the brand) can't reach - or have no interests in. I mean, why would they support your business if you screw them? It also depends on the kind of investors of course; venture investements have to have a stricter planning by definition, (it isn't like there are that many Abramoviches in eSport) than single persons putting money in a project they like (mibr, anyone?). Having superstars do cater to sponsors, but depending on how good your salespeople are to pitch them - or possible campaigns - can mean the difference between failure and success. And while the numbers of players might not be fantastic for WC3 in competitive play in Europe, there is still lots of focus on the best Europeans. I do share parts of your view. WC3 is mostly a dead game due to many things - but do remember that is what people have said about CS for the last 5 years ;-) I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #32 NeverGG

very well written. Better light a candle than curse the darkness!

(10 months ago) #34 -_-Tr1a

so long ... =\

(10 months ago) #35 ShiaoPi

very nice article

(10 months ago) #39 Mista_Masta

Great article, well written.

(10 months ago) #42 Oompa

The Kings was fail, but Sauer Krauts more than made up for it. This article wins.

(10 months ago) #44 mysassyelf

in law, this is called "damnum absque injuria," meaning damage without injury.

for example, one person(or TUT in this case) causes damage or loss to another for which the latter has no remedy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnum_absque_injuria

friends may come and go, enemies accumulate... gg

(10 months ago) #48 4ueuL

so does this mean that MYM is really responsible for all of this?

With great looks comes great responsiblities XD

(10 months ago) #49 mysassyelf

well, if MYM is TUT, and other teams are suffering because of the high salary MYM gives to their wc3 players, then yes, they are responsible for other team's dilemma, but not all of it. It's a just an effect of the invisible hand economics of laissez faire, competition do has its own setbacks. But then again, those other teams DON'T have a specific right which is violated, so they really cant do anything except whine. friends may come and go, enemies accumulate... gg

(10 months ago) #45 oppenz

hope the Sauer Krauts guy read this article nice article! I'm looking at you

(10 months ago) #46 KylinAlexLee

nice article,gj Phil.

(10 months ago) #47 oX

Great article, very nice read, and good replies phil gj.

(10 months ago) #50 geek_nd

SK disband...OK Last edited by geek_nd at 05.09.2008, 12:16

(10 months ago) #51 KrazyKenny

I can't really get the point with "the salaries. it would have never ever happened that after the wc3players got to know about the high salaries of mymplayers, every, and i mean every fucking wc3 clan create a big union and just leans back for months, maybe years and say "no, we wont raise our salaries at all".

Even if MYM secures the first places @wc3l, ngl and some solo tourneys, there are still the second and third place left, and thats why every clan raised their salaries at least a bit (maybe from 200 up to 400$, i dont know the salaries), so they have a chance to get a piece of the action.

so i agree with mysassyelf. You maybe didnt force the other clans to do it, but the other clans didnt have any other opportunity left

(and if u wanna come up with ur managing system phil, i bet that there are a lot of clans who want to do the same with their investors and all that bullshit, but i guess there are no other as you are still the only investor clan)

(10 months ago) #53 Phil

It all just comes to down to whether or not you are able to make money on your investments. Sure, as a team you should raise your wages if you can capitalize on it and earn the money in again. Raising the wages without any idea of how to make money on it is simply stupid. There is always an opportunity. Unless you get stubborn and see a WC3-team as a prestige-project you just HAVE to have. I'm forever blowing bubbles!

(10 months ago) #54 Flex-

ok with all things considered isnt it better for the whoule e-sports if the players are getting payed and prizes are serios enaugh... its not just about kids making an extra buck, and the more the make the better it all looks in the end. Sup?

(10 months ago) #55 Lun-

nice article. TUT = MYM? Sauer Krauts = SK? The Kings = 4K? lols, wild guess. :/

(9 months ago) #60 GERMilo-

Your a genius. ^-^"
Though it sounds weird by SK blaming an esports team for having money they invest in teams? Am I the only one who thinks it's a good thing if "TUT" has a lot of money they can spend?

Ahh and by the way there should be a reason why TUT has that amount of money and that should be good marketing. :D

(9 months ago) #61 Lun-

true, MYM is way too rich! :P

(10 months ago) #57 _evan

There's only so much blame you can put on MYM without facing with the actual problem - eSport doesn't have a legitimate business model of its own. The 'problem' is MYM is funded differently compared to other competitive organisations. There's only so much money for the likes of SK, fnatic and Mousesports to get through sponsorship deals. This number is linked to the current growth and potential of eSports as a whole. Whatever wages and squads they support is representative of how strong the market and business is at the moment. MYM does have a unfair comparative advantage, which means they can put extra pressure on other teams to artificially increase their wages and support in order to keep the same level of players or get a new squad. Which means that the team either has to drop the squad because they can't justify the increase, fnatic dropping its European team and Mousesports switching to a Chinese team are both good examples of market pressure. SK have always been able to give good wages compared to other competitive organisations. Turning Carmacs criticism against him by stating SK did the same thing by buying World Elites players is crowd pleasing, but unfair. ESL isn't going to bankrupt its self just for the sake of MYM or SK to win extra prize money(the teams business model isn't even based on winning prize money anyway), thankfully. So they're not to blame. Raising prize money would probably have an adverse effect and might actually bring wages up, which is the last thing we want. ToD manages to get his demands met because he's a world class player. He's probably the second best human (race) in the world, which affects his wage as well since there are less top tier human players overall. And, he signs short contracts. To be honest, it's not the top players which are the problem. MYM are free to pay Moon whatever they want, even if it's above the threshold of reasonable wages in current WC3, simply because he's the best. The problem is with the other players (I don't mean Grubby). When someone like Lucifier or Susiria is being paid too much it puts unnecessary pressure on other teams and the 'system'. They're not top players (at the moment) and you can see why the Koreans asked for a pay rise at World Elite, and eventually joined SK in search of wages which they thought they deserved. What MYM is doing isn't bad as such, but it's not helping the WC3 scene, either. I'm sure they'll give a million reasons to justify giving the wages they do but Carmac is right to point out the 'problem'. He's a journalist and the fact it was posted on SK is irrelevant. It's not a sign of weakness either (SK have signed violet after all), it's much better to be open about these issues than having organisations going bankrupt trying to match each other. Decent read.

(10 months ago) #58 ensi

Quoting _evan: What MYM is doing isn't bad as such, but it's not helping the WC3 scene, either. I'm sure they'll give a million reasons to justify giving the wages they do but Carmac is right to point out the 'problem'. He's a journalist and the fact it was posted on SK is irrelevant. It's not a sign of weakness either (SK have signed violet after all), it's much better to be open about these issues than having organisations going bankrupt trying to match each other. Hah, I'd like to see that :D "Sorry Moon, but we can't pay you so much anymore, it's not good for the scene" :D

(10 months ago) #59 MCCdeclan

Use your money to buy a decent DotA team

(9 months ago) #62 MiddleofNowhere

I'd say you are both right guys... I mean Phil and Carmac. Carmac is right that such a salary competition is driving wc3 scene to madness... But Phil is also right, a market is a market and if i am smarter or luckier or whatever than someone else, i may get more resources than him and make more money and, surprising myself, spend more money. But that is kinda classical market fault - any person that knows what economical theory is, knows that. A possibility of monopolizing the market is one of the faults... It is not like MYM is the dark side of the force here, it's like market is still not perfect. The best what we have, but still not perfect. That's why we still need governments, who control the situation and interfere where neseccary. And that's exactly what we need probably... We have G7, but it kinda doesn't care about that problem.. Dunno, but in NHL or NBA there are rules that establish maximum amounts of the participating teams' salary budgets.. May be ESL should do the same. Or may be MYM should decide to give their competitors some breathing room :D But it is up to them of course. Last edited by MiddleofNowhere at 09.09.2008, 19:55 Guess noone is really satisfied with being second best

(9 months ago) #63 MiddleofNowhere

deleted my middleofnowhere Last edited by MiddleofNowhere at 09.09.2008, 19:56 Guess noone is really satisfied with being second best

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	Phil Author Last update : 04.09.2008 09:04 26 updates
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